- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- usa@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- usa@lemmy.ml
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Texas power prices soared 20,000% Wednesday evening amid another brutal heat wave.
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Spot electricity prices topped $5,000 per megawatt-hour, up more than 200 times from Wednesday morning.
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The state’s grid operator issued its second-highest energy emergency, then later said conditions returned to normal.
Solar is only half the battle though. There can often be a severe electricity shortage in the evening when solar power shuts off but temperates are still high. This issue is greatest in the late summer and fall because it’s still very hot but the sun sets earlier.
There are solutions to this issue but they are fairly early in development and sometimes expensive. California is struggling with this issue currently. We’ve installed a huge amount of battery power over the last few years which has prevented several catastrophes so far but heat continues to get more severe, increasing energy needs as we are trying to shut down the state’s remaining gas peaker plants.
That’s true of household panels (which are great for offsetting your daytime usage, which is usually your highest usage), but that is generally not true of large solar installations that heat up a huge mass of salt until it’s molten and then produce power from that source 24/7. Example: https://insideclimatenews.org/news/16012018/csp-concentrated-solar-molten-salt-storage-24-hour-renewable-energy-crescent-dunes-nevada/
TL/DR: large solar installations produce power 24/7 (yes, even when it’s dark)
Solar thermal isn’t really what we mean when we say solar power. The vast majority, even at utility scale, is PV panels just like the ones on your roof. Historically, solar thermal was too expensive and PV panels are still far cheaper.
That said, for areas like CA that may soon approach maximum solar penetration it may deserve a second look because of its more consistent energy output. It will mainly be competing with batteries, pumped hydro, and new generations of geothermal technology. All of these are new and fairly unproven at scale so we’ll have to learn as we go which is the best option for the later stages of decarbonizing the electrical grid.
Geothermals been proven since the 60s. It’s a sealed system, there’s no pollution (even if the pipe popped, it’s just water), stations can be planted next to preschools and daycares and no one would be the wiser.
If your state has mountains, geothermals prob the answer. If your state doesn’t have mountains (Kansas, Florida, Delaware), being from Washington, I don’t know how you guys can live there. Not being able to orientate by the horizon fucking weirds me out. Especially in fucking Florida. I was driving thru the Ocala “forest” and it’s all Spanish moss and saw palmettos everywhere. You can’t see more than 10ft into the forest, and that’s when I noticed you can’t see the sky thru it either. It’s just barely slivers of rays making it to the floor. I’ve never felt so claustrophobic in my life. *shudder fuck florida
I didn’t mean geothermal was entirely new but traditionally it has been limited to very specific geologic conditions which have largely already been developed. Newer technology (ironically pioneered by oil and gas drilling) has recently made many more sites possibly economical. But as with the other things I listed, these new types of geothermal plants are still somewhat unproven and expensive. I know they’re being investigated but so far very few have been built.
I wonder if they could drill down and capture the heat from the hotspot under Missouri.
Alaska, The Rockies, Yellowstone, the Sierras and the Cascades are all no brainers.
And Hawai’i for obvious reasons.
No. We’re absolutely NOT poking a hole into the world ending super caldera.
Don’t need too, you just need to boil water (or ammonia, or propane, etc) to spin turbines and Yellowstone does that on the surface
I’m not familiar with the geology of Missouri but it mostly depends on how deep you need to go. The deeper the more expensive it will be to build.
I saw something recently which is the same principle as molten salt, except the medium never melts, is stable, and… iirc is pretty much just carbon. I was trying to look for a source and all I could find was the equally-encouraging news that the humble red brick has now been turned into a capacitor (with a wall of bricks being able to perform as a supercapacitor)
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200811120154.htm
This is solar’s half of the battle, high energy demand during bright sunlight.
The Texas grid issues have been right after solar drops off (evening, not day) because Texas does rely on solar for a small, but necessary, part of it energy. The second half is energy storage, and Texas lacks that which is why its been having many close calls this summer and has resorted to paying cryptominers to not mine to narrowly scrape by after solar power drops off.
Texas has 3000Mw of battery storage with 10000Mw on the way.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/texas-battery-rush-oil-states-power-woes-fuel-energy-storage-boom-2023-05-31/#:~:text=The Electric Reliability Council of,according to its own data.
Texas can use up to 100GW of power and was basically always over 60GW during that time of day this summer. The 3GW was used on a few days to bridge the gap, but wasn’t quite enough on its own on other days. 10GW more would have covered this summer though. Hopefully next summer isn’t worse though (seems like expectations is next year is supposed to be hotter). Population also continues to grow and electrification continues. And NG makes up the bulk of the power still. Hopefully wind and solar installations grow significantly in the next year as well.
I fail to see the problem. You cool your house down while the sun is up and even if it is still hot outside, then your house gets a bit warmer, so what? Still it is comfy inside and in the night you can open everything up to get some fresh wind in.
This is what I do, but there are still problems. Some people are at work and don’t have programmable thermostats. If you have a poorly insulated house, even if you do pre-cool in the middle of the day, by the time late evening rolls around, it can be getting quite hot again. And during extreme heat waves, the overnight temperature can remain very high. Last night I went to open my windows around 10 PM but it was still hotter outside than in my house. And yesterday wasn’t even particularly hot where I live, the high was only in the low 90’s.
okay, i didnt think it this bad. i thought it should cool down quite quickly at night because half of the state is a dessert, but i now realize most of the people life in the subtropical part.
Even in the desert it can be an issue. Phoenix had an overnight low of 97 this summer. Soon that may be commonplace.
Part of the problem is poor planning by utilities but our systems are also being tested by weather that is truly unprecedented in human history. Our grid, and our strategies for keeping cool were developed in a different climate than the one we now inhabit.
Not to mention Diablo Canyon. Last I heard, we were working on an expansion at Long Valley Geothermal station, but it won’t be ready before DCNR goes offline.
I think they’re going to postpone its closure which will be controversial but necessary to avoid burning more natural gas.
It’s 2018 and California has postponed the closure of DCNR. It’s 2020 and California has postponed the closure of DCNR. It’s 2023 and California has postponed the closure of DCNR. In the time we’ve been kicking the can down the road, we could have built a newer, better, safer nuclear power plant to replace DCNR. Instead, we keep pushing DCNR way past its intended service life, and we’re going to be shocked, shocked I tell you, when something finally cocks up.
recently learned that if we went with nuclear decades ago this whole problem wouldn’t even exist. https://freakonomics.com/podcast/nuclear-power-isnt-perfect-is-it-good-enough/