• schmorp
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    5 months ago

    Because there is science, and there’s science, and for a layperson it can be impossible to tell the two apart.

    Science 1 is the scientific method we all love since we are toddlers: we try something out, then again, then again, then again - and from that we learn something.

    Science 2 is an impostor who has aligned with the oppressors. It uses the language and the coats of Science 1, but will claim cigarettes are healthy or glyphosate is harmless for whoever can pay more.

  • @Solumbran@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Do not trust science. Understand it and take it into account rationally.

    Science isn’t a better religion than any other.

    Edit: So all those downvotes are from people who think that science shouldn’t be understood, but instead trusted blindly and believed in? Okay then. That sort or defeats the purpose and concept of science but okay.

    • Solar Bear
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      65 months ago

      If you think evidence-based reasoning is a form of religion, you need to check your house for gas leaks.

        • Solar Bear
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          35 months ago

          Explain how you can rationally take science into account without believing it. I’m very interested in watching you try to untwist that pretzel.

          • All right, so this is their stupid fucking argument:

            Believing in someone’s research without studying it yourself is just religion.

            The reason why they’re fucking stupid is all the peer review that goes into it from professionals who specialize in the fields they peer review. While religion generally stands on the feet of “trust me bro”, trust in science has a bit more of a backbone. You, or someone you trust to be knowledgeable, can go back and fact check work.

            Aside from all of those arguments though, science is something you perform yourself. That in no way can be compared to a religion, as you can produce irrefutable results on your own with science. Not on all subjects, but I have yet to see religion produce irrefutable results using their methods on literally anything.

              • FiveMA
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                5 months ago

                Your comment is inappropriately rude, and adds little more than hostility to the discussion.

                This is a moderator warning to revise it.

                • @Solumbran@lemmy.world
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                  15 months ago

                  Being called “fucking stupid” isn’t rude, but calling out an useless participation because of that is rude?

          • @Solumbran@lemmy.world
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            05 months ago

            Bayesian logic. Basically take information into account with a degree of credibility, but without considering that it is merely true or false. It’s simple really.

            • Solar Bear
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              5 months ago

              Bayes’ theorem doesn’t mean “don’t believe anything”, you highschool dropout. It is a method of statistical analysis. Specifically, is a method of determining which unknown events are most likely connected to a known event based on the limited information we have. It’s not a general logical framework, and certainly doesn’t work the way you described it. In fact, it literally requires believing in some kind of first principle as a foundation from which you can then extrapolate the likelihood of the unknown. Expanded further since his death, the general idea of Bayesian inferencing requires repeatedly updating your assumptions based on new information. So it certainly doesn’t mean believe nothing; if anything, it means “believe the current thing until proven otherwise”.

              • @Solumbran@lemmy.world
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                15 months ago

                Ah, personal attacks, the sign of honesty and strong argumentation. Are you okay?

                I never said to not believe in anything. Anything requires axioms including Bayesian epistemology, and that’s a nice strawman you tried to build. I said not to believe in science, as the point of science is to approach truths of reality without getting influenced by beliefs; believing in science as if it is just “truth provider” defeats the purpose as science itself tells to not believe it. Trying to paint that as “don’t believe anything” is absurd and dishonest.

                • Solar Bear
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                  15 months ago

                  Ah, personal attacks, the sign of honesty and strong argumentation. Are you okay?

                  I have zero patience for pseudo-intellectualism.

                  I said not to believe in science, as the point of science is to approach truths of reality without getting influenced by beliefs; believing in science as if it is just “truth provider” defeats the purpose as science itself tells to not believe it.

                  That is not the point of science. Science does not “tell us to not believe it.” What podcast did you hear that on?

    • ProdigalFrogOPMA
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      65 months ago

      I trust that science CAN find an answer, and while there are bad studies, ultimately science is practically the only way to understand the world and find the closest thing there is to objective truth. It does require adequate education to sift the wheat from the chaff, but ultimately the scientific method is one of the most powerful tools humanity has in its belt.

      • @Solumbran@lemmy.world
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        05 months ago

        Which is my point, you don’t believe in science, you understand its purpose and take information it provides rationally

        • ProdigalFrogOPMA
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          5 months ago

          I get that there is an almost religious dogmatism in some parts of science, and if that is the aspect you are referring to, then I don’t disagree, but your statements without context come across as a religious person who begrudgingly accepts that science can be right about certain things but view the whole thing with perhaps an unreasonable skepticism. I’m not saying you actually do, but that’s how those comments come off wtihout additional context.

          Someone saying “I believe in science.” could mean that they blindly believe whatever someone in a white coat says, but could also mean they believe that the scientific method is the ultimate tool of truth discovery, or someone who believes that science, collectively, is able to eventually root out incorrect information via reproducible studies. It’s an ambiguous saying.

    • The whole point of science is you don’t have to trust it because to follow the scientific method, it must be reproducible.

      You can read the paper yourself and determine if there are any holes to poke in the methodology or examine any biases. But ultimately, you can reproduce it yourself.

      Comparing science to a religion is flawed because religion mandates belief whereas science, by definition, does not.

      • @Solumbran@lemmy.world
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        05 months ago

        Science doesn’t mandate anything, but people do in the name of science. Covid was a perfect example of that, with so many “doctors” leading a cult (Didier Raoult from France managed to gather so many believers that he ended up having a worldwide impact which slowed down research of a vaccine globally).

        Those people do believe in science, and as soon as a “scientist” tells them what they want to hear, they believe it because they think that it’s science. If you define science only by the ideal scientific methodology then of course it isn’t comparable to religions.