This seemed odd to me, so I went to investigate. A clarification was posted 2 hours ago. Stating very clearly that:
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loli/shota are BANNED and not okay in any way.
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IRL kids are BANNED OBVIOUSLY because no shit.
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characters who are petite/young-looking but not obviously underage are ALLOWED because as an instance the votes decided that banning all of it was destructive, and differentiating between them can be impossible.
So, it seems like an anti-witch hunting measure, which has ironically caused a massive witch hunt for the instance as a whole. These guys don’t seem to in any way support pedophilia (thank God).
What an odd way to initially phrase it. Saying “underage-looking nsfw” is such an underhanded wording that it makes me feel like they were trying to stir up a shitstorm against their own userbase. The followup is way better “we’re allowing weebs, no loli, some of you might still think it looks underage but we’re leaving it at the mods’ discretion”. But the damage is already done.
Petite / young-looking but not obviously underage
That still might actually be illegal in some jurisdictions. The wording of the British law on it bans “pseudo photographs” of people who are underage, and the definition used would probably cover that.
I think Canada has a law against it?
Yep, and so does several other countries.
I wonder if their community vote will hold up in a court of law? I can’t help but think that yay@lemmynsfw is out of their depth here…
He also called them “pleasures” in the initial post. That’s a really weird way to phrase it 🤔
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HARD DISAGREE
Another community having the possibility of posting something you don’t approve of when nothing is actually illegal, nobody is actually getting hurt, and you could just have blocked that community (or even just offending users) for yourself in the first place is just a really dumb reason to force the whole instance to defederate from it.
It’s up to Ernest what happens, but I’m not on board for unnecessary censorship of cartoons, of all things. I honestly worry for you.
It is actually illegal in some jurisdictions, including mine.
It probably is illegal in some jurisdictions, that’s the issue.
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but I’m not on board for unnecessary censorship of cartoons
Said by every loli loving paedo.
I agree
go to https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com and hit the block button if you don’t want posts from there in your feed
The kbin enhancement script is also a great little tool to completely hide anything originating from NSFW domains that’s listed in the script.
As long as kbin domain blocking tools work, I can choose to block their content - and I will, because 1) it’s pretty fucking vile 2) it might be illegal. But I don’t need it to be defederated, I’m happier if I have the tools to deal with this (and other similar stuff).
I wish we could remove the The “Random Post” / “Random Thread” boxes from the front page. Those seem to display NSFW material quite often - I don’t really have any need for “random content” especially since I can’t control the source.
But I don’t need it to be defederated, I’m happier if I have the tools to deal with this (and other similar stuff).
I’m sorry but this is asinine. We’re not talking about blocking too many posts about Taylor Swift, we’re talking about new users of kbin getting fed illegal child porn in their feed.
Kbin should defederate immediately.
This is not about CSAM though. It’s about specific fetish (which isn’t illegal globally as far as I know)
ernest needs to worry about the legality of the server and his users holistically.
I need to worry about the content I’m browsing. Ernest can’t worry or know about local laws in every country. Hence, I need to be able to block domains that I deem unsuitable.If ernest decides he needs to defederate to keep his users safe, then that’s fine by me, it’s his call. But I want to be able to moderate my own content (tools exist, but seem a bit buggy https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/issues/118)
I think the larger point is that you can still block domains you don’t want to see, but in this particular case defederation should happen. Both things can co-exist
Absolutely. If admins see the need to defederate, then go for it. I’m not going to object or leave because of it.
I just simply said, I personally don’t have need to defederate - if - the blocking tools work.Everyone else mileage may vary. Of course.
Hear, hear.
If it “might be illegal” than there actually might be a legal responsibility to defederate. Federation is not links to content, it’s mirrors of content, and anything you’re seeing while browsing kbin.social is being hosted here.
If it “might be illegal” than there actually might be a legal responsibility to defederate.
Absolutely, I never said otherwise (I hope?)
But that’s up to server admins - I don’t even know where the servers are hosted right now. I have no idea what applies to them. I’d like to believe they are acting in good faith and following their local legislation.What I meant with “might be illegal” is laws are different. Iceland and Iran have very different views on illegal content. And it might be that the content that is illegal in Iran, isn’t actually illegal in where ever the servers are hosted.
We all have to make sure we follow the laws of the country we live in.
So we need tools to handle those situations (like the situation in this thread)
- it might be illegal.
Sounds like an existential risk to the server to federate with them unless they tighten things up then. @ernest is beholden to both the laws of where his server is hosted and where he lives, which I believe are Germany and Poland. If he violates either, there goes the instance and/or him.
Certainly. The instance must abide by the law of the country it’s hosted in. And we users must abide by the laws of our respective countries.
I’ll let ernest and instance mods to worry about the legality of the instance, but I’d like to be able to to control the content that ends up in my browser - domain blocking is a hammer, going forward it would also be nice to get keyword blocking and other tools.
if the instance is beholden to german laws it might be better to move to a new one before this gets too large. otherwise it’ll suffer the same fate as traditional social media. no idea what the laws in poland are…
For some reason, people from reddit would rather ban EVERYONE from accessing content, rather than just hitting the very-easy-to-use block button, that will take care of all of their woes while not forcing their opinion on everyone else.
Loli is fucking gross, and the people who enjoy it are gross, but the block button is right there.
I think we should keep the decision on the users what they want to see or don’t want to, as long as its legal - similar to the piracy magazines or others.
Maybe block it by default, but allow users to opt-in / remove the block?
By the way:
You can see all threads from an instance by using the following URL on Kbin (not on Lemmy):
https://kbin.social/d/[instance-url]
^ the /d stands for domain.
e.g.: https://kbin.social/d/lemmy.ml
On the same page, you can block the whole instance.
As long as kbin domain blocking tools work,
Instance blocking.
go to https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com and hit the block button if you don’t want posts from there in your feed
how the hell do i add a domain to this blocklist? i don’t want to see anything from any magazine on @ lemmynsfw dot com
Click on the domain (between brackets) and block it like you’ll block a magazine or a user.
You can also display a domain by copying it after your.instance/d/the_domain
edit: Warning : when you’ll click on the domain, it will display its content that may be NSFW
EDIT: this doesn’t block the instance, but only the domain. new tool coming soon, confirmed by the main dev:
domain blocking existed long before federation. It serves as a way to block sources like youtube.com, spotify.com. Blocking instances will be a separate option in the user profile soon. I will submit a pull request.
https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/issues/118#issuecomment-942720
Go to https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com and block it there
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As much as I enjoy the idea of an adult community, it has to be adult in both idea and implementation. Allowing depictions of underage people (especially in the age of AI) is plain stupid. I’m blocking lemmynsfw and suggest you all do the same.
Question from a new user, to block it do i actually have to click into it or is there another way? I’ve read all the comments and don’t need clarification on anything else (except maybe if Ernest decided to defederate already); I definitely want to block it.
Thanks in advance!
Go to https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com and block it there
Thanks! Wasn’t sure if there was another way. Appreciate you!
Close to? There are jurisdictions where that is straight-up illegal. In those jurisdictions, anyone who so much as loads a page containing such a post is guilty of a sex offense, because the uncensored image is in their browser cache and therefore in their possession.
So yes, if they’re allowing that content, then they need to be defederated with extreme prejudice.
From the looks of it, kbin’s gonna need some stronger moderation to get rid of the fucking paedophiles.
I have taken the executive decision to turn federation off for a similar reason.
I was recommended a vile post on the sidebar from m/random which I definitely never want to see the likes of again. I did report it but since it was from another server I don’t really know where that goes.
I’m not going to turn federation back on again until I find a way to prevent it. Perhaps we should start a blacklist?
You can blacklist sites you don’t want to see.
Go tohttps://kbin.social/d/<the instance domain name you want to block>
For example: https://kbin.social/d/sh.itjust.worksOn the right side-bar, in the Domain box, you’ll see this you’ll see this
Click on the block symbol and you will not see content from that domain again.(hopefully)
Thank you and I appreciate the write up but I had actually already blacklisted a few domains.
Unfortunately that did not prevent the post from appearing in m/random because it was from a domain that I had not already blacklisted.
I simply do not want to have to act reactively once I have already been exposed to the vile content. At that point my experience is already ruined whether I block it afterwards or not.
Another reasonable approach might be to block m/random which I might consider doing if I am tempted to enable federation again, but for now I’m just going to play it safe and stick to kbin.social.
There is a good case here to defederate every instance by default and only federate based on a white list.
There are criminals in the fediverse obviously and we should split from them immediately. Don’t forget that their content is copied to the servers of Ernest automatically.
Again, Beehaw defederated 380 instances and it’s not just because they disagree with their political stance, but mostly because of this kind of horrible content. Which will come from another new instance, and another, etc, etc. Which means that we need to update Ernest regularly to protect his servers. Or make the default setting as defederated.
@LollerCorleone thanks for that.
This is highly misleading and makes more sense when reading the original question thread.
https://kbin.social/m/lemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com/t/42695/READ-THIS-clarification-on-the-decision-and-poll-resultsThis affects fictional content where it is hard to determine the age of the character. No obvious underage stuff.
I think it’s necessary to monitor the situation and how they will handle moderation, but for now, I would prefer to do it from a distance from kbin. There is currently a significant issue with moderation, and disturbing content can remain up for too long. I’m working on improving this issue as well.
I’m personally most worried about the toxicity of the western loli community. I had to deal with them as a moderator of anime communities, most famously an anime shitposting page on Facebook, and they’re the worst.
Yeah pedos tend to be shit people, whoda thunk it?
It’s not just that.
They think if you’re not a big fan of loli, then you don’t belong to the anime community, and you must be harassed out from there. If I had a dollar every time people were harassed on Twitter for saying they like some generic shounen instead of some borderline loli porn…
They do that, though, because they know reasonably well adjusted people will not tolerate their kinks in general fandom, so they have to make sure those people do not enter the fandom.
So they believe you need to be into their kink to be an anime fan not from an ideological position, but from one of knowing its the only way they get to be in the fandom.
Which is super fucked up.
See stuff like this is why I don’t really like anime, the community ruins it and a lot of the things that seem to be popular for anime also tend to have those weird pedophilic ideals. I am sure there are some anime I like, but I continue to not touch the medium with a 10 foot pole because of the user base.
The important differentiator is that anime is a medium. There is high-brow stuff and low-brow stuff. Both fans and non-fans make the mistake of treating it as this all-inclusive hodgepodge, particularly because there happens to be a large market for that low-brow stuff.
Removing sexuality from the picture for a moment, both the anime and light novel scenes (where a lot of anime originates) are much more derivative and prone to copycatting than their western counterparts. Competition is fierce and sex sells. I don’t like it when stuff I find creepy finds its way into something I like, and sometimes I have to move on if the author keeps coming back to it. That’s just how it goes.
Find what anime you like, stick to the communities for the anime that you do like. Avoid mainstream or generic “anime” communities, because the disproportionate amount of low-brow content is going to drag discussions down in that direction. Either you accept it, ignore it, or stay away from it. And if some jackass tries to tell you that you’re not a “real” anime fan if you don’t accept their fetishes, nope right the fuck out of that conversation. Anyone trying to shove their fetish down your throat is just looking for self-validation in a public place and engaging with that is utterly pointless.
it’d be nice if you could write up a short thing on your philosophy for federating/defederating/content. many of us would like to simply have full federation and curate content ourselves, though it’s understandable that moderation needs to happen in some cases.
The more pressing matter is that simply viewing such images is a crime in some jurisdictions, let alone distributing them. It exposes both the site itself, any federating instances and users of any federating instances to potential legal issues.
More philosophically, I don’t care if people that want to look at underage anime girls fuck off. They can go and be creepy weebs somewhere else.
many of us would like to simply have full federation and curate content ourselves, though it’s understandable that moderation needs to happen in some cases.
Agreed. I think the emphasis needs to be on usage of NSFW tagging, and making sure users have the ability to block magazines that they think are borderline (or just bad at tagging their content) without having to click into that magazine.
That said, I would not be opposed to a middle ground where entire instances can be flagged as NSFW so that their content is automatically tagged. 1) Instances should be able to voluntarily tag themselves like this so that all posts originating from that instance are automatically tagged, and 2) admins of other instances should be given the option to flag other instances as NSFW to their local instance as an alternative to defederating. There is still some room for overreaction with #2, but it’s still putting control in the hands of that instance’s users whether they want to interact with that content or not.
This seems like a much more manageable approach. Obviously illegal content needs to be banned, but as long as NSFW content is legal and properly tagged, it can be an entirely opt-in experience (with some default/UI tweaks if it’s not the case already). I understand that people don’t want to see otaku lolichans or whatever, but even on Reddit enabling NSFW could get you a prolapsed anus, a brutal beheading, or any flavor of extreme fetish that has just as much potential to ruin your day. Even as someone who doesn’t seek any of this out, I’d still like to have aggregation of the largest NSFW feeds (which is majority pretty tame by comparison). If there’s a possibility for this stuff to sneak into /m/random or wherever, that can be addressed without defederation.
One of the reasons I joined Kbin is because it isn’t Beehaw, and doesn’t have the mission of curating a family-friendly safe space engineered not to offend anyone, ever. Moderation is necessary to mitigate habitual bad actors and comply with legal standards, but self-imposing a mandate beyond that just creates an endless stream of drama in service of a goal that’s impossible to attain. As the fediverse grows, this kind of controversy will become more and more common as with all social media, and it’s not tenable to try be responsive to the whims of every person or group who wants to impose an agenda or finds their sensibilities violated by this or that community. It fuels conflict, promotes censorship, and incentivizes grandstanding by people who are more concerned with policing the actions of others than contributing constructively to discussions.
Who wants to read a post feed that’s dominated by people arguing about this stuff and calling each other names over the new hot-button moderation issue of the day? How is that any better than Twitter?
We’re talking about illegal child porn here. Kbin should defederate immediately.
I haven’t seen any user profile options to block nsfw tagged content, or to block a specific instance.
That would help, and doesn’t need defederation.
edit: found “Hide adult content” in settings.
Under “Settings”, “Hide adult content” is enabled by default.
In communities you have a little block icon next to the “Subscribe” button in the sidebar to block individual communities. The same rule goes for whole instances. In this case: https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com - I think it’s just a little hard to navigate directly to those URLs from within the kbin interface at the moment.The ability to blur NSFW really was a quality of life thing I didn’t even realize I’d been taking for granted. I wouldn’t call it an imminent NEED for myself, knowing how impossibly busy Ernest is, but. Dude.
I find myself between a rock and a suspiciously sticky hard place, because some of my interests should definitely be considered NSFW but aren’t porn. So do I give up my hobbies or subject myself to just SO many dicks.
To my own humor, I’m really remembering how much porn is on the internet right now.
To my own humor, I’m really remembering how much porn is on the internet right now.
Yup. That’s why my own take on this treads a fine line. IMO we need porn on our side to leave Reddit in the past, but that doesn’t mean we all need someone’s junk in our face either. :D
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Which is still potentially illegal in some countries.
Porn in general is illegal in some countries. User discretion is advised.
Anyone against defederating is seriously messed up. You included.
I don’t know why you feel the need to insult me over trivial bullshit like this, but I can throw that particular one right back at you, just for that.
Obviously because you feel the need to call CP “trivial bullshit”.
Geez, you need to take some fresh air, he didn’t said that. Dont make this place Reddit 2.0 and take the time to think before you type.
It’s pretty black and white when it comes to this stuff. There’s no grey zone. Block the hell out of it, support blocking it, or you condone it.
Ah yes, the classic “you’re either with me or against me”
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I literally did not do that, completely the opposite. You know who’s the greatest homophobes that see weird gay or trans agendas everywhere? Closeted gay people. Your weird mental gymnastics to put me into this sort of corner, even though I and those mods made it very clear that CP is banned, makes me think that you’re a closeted pedophile who thinks acting this way makes him look less suspicious. See how that works out?
Quite the case of projection there.
You are almost there buddy.
You know who’s the greatest homophobes that see weird gay or trans agendas everywhere? Closeted gay people.
I’m pretty sure that’s not actually true.
I believe one solution to this, is to add another option beside federation or defederation.
Since, if my understanding is correct, federated instances don’t actually share content until someone subscribes to the community in the bad instance. The bad content is then shown to every other user in the first instance, needing every other user to block the bad content if they don’t like it or forcing defederation.
But on the other hand, that means that someone does actually want to view the content since someone did subscribed to it. So my proposed solution is to limit the content of the bad instance to be shown only to the subscribed users and nobody else. Maybe either by the user when subscribing, to select a limited subscription shown only to themselves, or by the moderator.Even of its only being shown to the subscriber, it’s still being hosted by the local instance. This puts the local site at legal risk.
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Wtf. Did we for real defederate from lemmynsfw? They’re no longer showing up in my feed…
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