You called Allah an asshole and i just showed you that it is not the objective truth, it is just an opinion.

Your analogy of stabbing in the eye, does not fully apply mainly because you have applied your own limitations on it. If Allah is the creator then he can very easily make the whole process of “eye stabbing” pleasant and painless and then “the stabbed” gets the eternal reward. Which does not sound bad.

Of course it’s possible to say someone is an asshole without knowing the “full consequences.”

How can you judge an action without knowing all that led to it and all that will happen because of it?

If you have the power to stop 1000 people from dying, then you tell them to do something and let them die, you’re an asshole.

Sure, if i (a human) were to do it, I would be an asshole but we can’t judge an entity that is infinite with the same logic.

If he doesn’t want to be called an asshole, let him defend himself. Or is he not omnipotent enough to do that and you have to do it for him based on your own unprovable claims?

I don’t think he cares what you think considering you do not have the same knowledge as him (we all are created and he is the creator). But even if he were to defend, based on your request, there are multiple assumptions you made. Such as he needs to show up and talk in front of you, when it could be that me agruing here is the manifestation of him defending himself.

I believe because of my personal experiences. You cannot know what could or couldn’t be said by an omnipotent being unless you are omnipotent as well, especially when the Quran is not a book of proofs and mathematics.

I don’t think i can convince/prove to you that he isn’t but my intention is show that you can’t prove he is as well. In the end, you believing him to be an asshole is just that, a belief.

Firstly, i am happy and appreciate that you feel for the families of the victim.

No? Just because some people believe it doesn’t make it true.

Im not saying it is makes it true. But because of my belief (and the belief of the people who died and go for hajj), it is truth for me.

In the end I am responsible for my actions, and my time here on earth.

The butterfly effect is well proven and very easy to see with simply a double pendulum.

Butterfly effect and double pendulum are both examples of chaotic systems. We cannot predict their motion because the tiniest changes lead to huge changes later on.

What I am saying is that, we humans can not predict what will happen because of the butterfly effect but since Allah is not bound by the laws of the universe (ie. He is infinite). Therefore the judgment that an action he took is wrong or right is not something we can know.

Or to never exercise it at all clearly. Maybe it’s because he doesn’t exist?

That’s just your opinion and i obviously disagree.

Very convenient way of explaining away the fact that good things and bad things happen randomly and/or as a direct result of human actions, not as a result of “Allah” choosing how to “exercise love”.

Again the difference between your statement and my statement is that my statements come from my belief in Allah and yours from your disbelief in Allah.

How do you know that? There is zero real proof and any “proof” in Islam has been well and truly debunked. You can’t just take an old book at it’s word you know.

My belief in Allah and thereafter is based on my personal experiences. And unless you experience it as well I doubt that you will become a believer because of my experiences. I do pray that you experience it as well but that’s about all that I can do.

What is “this ability” you’re talking about?

The ability to know both future and past. He is all knowing. In islamic theology, Allah exist outside of the universe and not bound by its rules. Everything else has to follow some rules/laws, he is the creator and everything else is created.

And Allah doesn’t exist, sorry to break it to you.

Again, we disagree because of our belief systems.

What i am saying is, it is not possible to say someone is an asshole, unless you know the full consequences of someone’s action.

To say that he is or isn’t both requires us to know this full context.

I say he isn’t an asshole because of my belief.

You say he is an asshole because of your belief.

Unironically, that is what i believe. So spot on!

I don’t expect you to be convinced because obviously you are not a muslim. Im just showing the flaw in your logic/assumption

Sure from your world view, because you are not omniscient. If Allah chooses to do something it is his decision, we cannot ask for an explanation, at least not in this world because that would make the “test” too easy. And that’s just if we even could understand it, which we most likely can’t.

Hand waving to you sure, but to many believers that is the truth. You cannot say that this action is bad because you do not possess the ability, i mean think about the butterfly effect for an example why it is not possible. But Allah is infinite therefore he possesses this ability.

Secondly it is his choice, for how to exercise his love, whether in this world or the afterworld. Muslims believe that he is most loving so when we don’t see it in this world the assumption is that we will get it in the hereafter.

This world is not a place for justice and neither is it fair, for we get it in the hereafter.

Thats your take, not the take of the people who go there. In your eyes, letting them die is “not caring about them” but in islam, that just means that they will get much better rewards in the hereafter.

In islam, the world is a place of test, not a place where to get justice. You get justice in the hereafter.

Lawlessness in Pakistan has gotten out of control. Some of the political parties (TLP for instance, they brought the whole country to halt when courts lawfully decided to absolve asia bibi (another blasphemy case)) that support this kind of justice were installed/supported by the military to undermine the then democratic government (PTI).

There was similar propaganda done when the military decided to align themselves with china and away from the US influence. Basically, it’s a lot easier to control people with this kind of mindset.

In pakistan, the military always portrays themselves as muslims first and have integrated islam in their image and then they intentionally force law enforcement actions against individuals like this until they are no longer useful to them.

If want to look up some mafia level shit on how they do some of this stuff, look up raftar channel on yt (dunno if it is available in english), but i can tell you he doesn’t even go into the bad stuff.

A better solution would be to fight climate change, it wasn’t this hot before.

You can’t relocate the Kaaba, it is just stone. And muslim do not worship the stone. It is just a marker to point the compass to.

Allah does what he wants, and he is not bound by the opinions of humans.

Controversial opinion: whats the point of stonehenge if there is no humanity? Its not like it fosters some ecosystem or smth for other species, its a historical piece which holds sentimental value to us humans.

If we continue to use oil, we will for sure fuck up humanity. The act was controversial but the message needs to be looked at

I also concur that the esteemed poster is indubitably correct.

Do german not see the effects of climate change? Why would they not vote for green party? Germany has faced such harsh weather this year with all sorts of weirdness

Oh my heart feels strange. Imagine if only 30 humans were left on the entire planet. This makes me incredibly sad!

Government mandated big tiddy goth gf /jk

On a serious note, we as a society needs to setup our priorities in the right places. Most people around me are struggling to pay for their living expenses, even after getting higher education degrees, they are struggling to get jobs. How can people think about having children when the society is built around extreme capitalism? (Get as much money from consumers as they can pay)