Donald Trump’s apologists argue that his indictment for conspiring to overturn the 2020 presidential election is overreach. They’re wrong. Presidents and ex-presidents shouldn’t be above the law.
It’s good…so long as we follow the advice of that last section: “Prosecute Them All”. If it’s used instead to distract from the ongoing crimes of other parties and other politicians—such as the fascist currently at the helm—then I couldn’t care less, and I think we shouldn’t allow ourselves to be distracted by it while there are much more important things to focus on.
The worst of Trump’s crimes—the ones that did serious, material harm to working-class people—aren’t being touched by this, just as they weren’t touched by the farcical impeachments the Democrats facilitated. And that’s because they, themselves, are happily engaged in the same crimes, as they have been all along.
Sure, bring out your popcorn or whatever when you’re relaxing at home and have nothing better to worry about. But during the day, put all the energy you can into what we MUST do to turn things around: put an end to state warfare, ongoing climate destruction, and the state violence and repression that keeps us from making progress on everything else.
Also:
> And that brings us to the real double standard here. Trying to overturn an American election is the kind of crime the Justice Department takes seriously. Extrajudicially slaughtering scary Muslims in a foreign country, even ones with US citizenship, is not.
Attacks carried out on marginalized communities—carried out just like the Jan 6 Washington DC attack was, but in cities and towns everywhere else on a monthly basis at least—also are not taken seriously. Jan 6 was one of MANY, but only when the halls of power see a tiny inkling of a (pretty pathetic) threat does it matter to politicians and their liberal fans. Not okay.
EDIT: sigh. Blockquotes broken by some Lemmy update.
Can you explain exactly how Biden is a fascist? Regardless of what you think of him I don’t see how that applies. The “both sides are the same” argument is getting very tiring, they’re both evil, but they’re absolutely not the same.
Biden has enacted FAR more fascist policy in his political career than Trump. Fascism embodies reactionary state violence used to consolidate the power of state and capital. From mass incarceration (which Biden is one of the chief architects of)—including literal concentration camps—to torture programs, mass surveillance, militarized policing, the violent repression of liberation movements, militarized borders, and support of fascists all over the place globally (including Saudi Arabia, India, Ukraine, Israel, and many others), to the ongoing American genocide, you’ve honestly been struck fucking blind by liberal propaganda if you don’t see the fascism Biden embodies. Heck, he’s been best buddies with outright segregationists for his entire political career, and was more or less of a closeted one himself (not wanting his “children [to] grow up in a [racial] jungle”).
I never claimed both sides are the same. It’s just that between the two brands of status quo U.S. politics, there’s literally only one side. You’re in a socialist community, for crying out loud. Time to start figuring that out. The other side is the left; the other side is labor; the other side exists only within social movements in the U.S., because hundreds of years of that fascism (of the kind Hitler explicitly recognized, admired, and modeled his pogroms on) have stripped that side from the electoral landscape.
Are you actually denying/apologizing for fascists in Ukraine? Fuckin’ yikes.
Sure, there are fascists in Russia too. The difference is that the country I have some influence over as a resident and citizen isn’t supporting those fascists. Nor is it supporting fascists in North Korea. But ones in Urkaine? Yep. Ones in Saudi Arabia? Yep. Ones in Israel? Yep. What fascists are your country and its rulers supporting? You should really focus on that, bud.
I guess I see that more as an embodiment of the US government for decades, so I don’t attribute that to Biden himself being a fascist. I don’t think mass incarceration is inherently fascist, although I could be wrong on that. Everything else on that list has been US policy for my entire life. That would be the center of the Venn diagram where both side’s evil overlaps, but I don’t think it’s enough to call Biden himself a fascist in the same way you can actually call Trump a fascist because he himself embodies all of the values. I don’t think participating in a fascist system automatically makes you a fascist. Evil to ignore it? Yes, but that’s not the same thing.
He’s not just ignoring it though: he’s been advancing and legislating (many of) these awful policies for literally fifty years. You might quibble about where to draw the line between “fascism” and “everyday atrocities”, but the guy has done a lot of harm in his life.
That’s not to say that everything he’s done has been bad. And I’d still rather have him in government than one of today’s fully mask-off GOP fascists: there’s no doubt that this label applies to Trump or DeSantis. But it’s important to recognize that neither party has any interest in ending many of the US’s worst crimes. We’re going to need some major … let’s optimistically say “reform” … for that to happen.
I know there’s a lot about his voting record that I disagree with, but I haven’t looked close enough to see if he actively supported fascist policies on the regular. If so, I’d agree
On the subject of Biden’s segregationism: this wasn’t closeted. He said that “jungle” bit as part of his enthusiastic and long-lasting opposition to busing to integrate schools, preferring the status quo of segregation. Kamala challenged him on this during one of the 2020 primary debates, and he refused to apologize or back down from that stance.
The list of presidents is essentially a list of criminals. Hopefully Trump will be the start of a trend of prosecuting these ghouls; it’s fun to imagine.
It’s good…so long as we follow the advice of that last section: “Prosecute Them All”. If it’s used instead to distract from the ongoing crimes of other parties and other politicians—such as the fascist currently at the helm—then I couldn’t care less, and I think we shouldn’t allow ourselves to be distracted by it while there are much more important things to focus on.
The worst of Trump’s crimes—the ones that did serious, material harm to working-class people—aren’t being touched by this, just as they weren’t touched by the farcical impeachments the Democrats facilitated. And that’s because they, themselves, are happily engaged in the same crimes, as they have been all along.
Sure, bring out your popcorn or whatever when you’re relaxing at home and have nothing better to worry about. But during the day, put all the energy you can into what we MUST do to turn things around: put an end to state warfare, ongoing climate destruction, and the state violence and repression that keeps us from making progress on everything else.
Also:
> And that brings us to the real double standard here. Trying to overturn an American election is the kind of crime the Justice Department takes seriously. Extrajudicially slaughtering scary Muslims in a foreign country, even ones with US citizenship, is not.
Attacks carried out on marginalized communities—carried out just like the Jan 6 Washington DC attack was, but in cities and towns everywhere else on a monthly basis at least—also are not taken seriously. Jan 6 was one of MANY, but only when the halls of power see a tiny inkling of a (pretty pathetic) threat does it matter to politicians and their liberal fans. Not okay.
EDIT: sigh. Blockquotes broken by some Lemmy update.
Can you explain exactly how Biden is a fascist? Regardless of what you think of him I don’t see how that applies. The “both sides are the same” argument is getting very tiring, they’re both evil, but they’re absolutely not the same.
Biden has enacted FAR more fascist policy in his political career than Trump. Fascism embodies reactionary state violence used to consolidate the power of state and capital. From mass incarceration (which Biden is one of the chief architects of)—including literal concentration camps—to torture programs, mass surveillance, militarized policing, the violent repression of liberation movements, militarized borders, and support of fascists all over the place globally (including Saudi Arabia, India, Ukraine, Israel, and many others), to the ongoing American genocide, you’ve honestly been struck fucking blind by liberal propaganda if you don’t see the fascism Biden embodies. Heck, he’s been best buddies with outright segregationists for his entire political career, and was more or less of a closeted one himself (not wanting his “children [to] grow up in a [racial] jungle”).
I never claimed both sides are the same. It’s just that between the two brands of status quo U.S. politics, there’s literally only one side. You’re in a socialist community, for crying out loud. Time to start figuring that out. The other side is the left; the other side is labor; the other side exists only within social movements in the U.S., because hundreds of years of that fascism (of the kind Hitler explicitly recognized, admired, and modeled his pogroms on) have stripped that side from the electoral landscape.
Ah yes the notable fascists of Ukraine 🙄
Is Putin also a fascist or are you just a full on tankie?
Are you actually denying/apologizing for fascists in Ukraine? Fuckin’ yikes.
Sure, there are fascists in Russia too. The difference is that the country I have some influence over as a resident and citizen isn’t supporting those fascists. Nor is it supporting fascists in North Korea. But ones in Urkaine? Yep. Ones in Saudi Arabia? Yep. Ones in Israel? Yep. What fascists are your country and its rulers supporting? You should really focus on that, bud.
@ieatpillowtags @StrayCatFrump This has nothing to do with Putin. Pretty cheap whatboutism but go off I guess.
I guess I see that more as an embodiment of the US government for decades, so I don’t attribute that to Biden himself being a fascist. I don’t think mass incarceration is inherently fascist, although I could be wrong on that. Everything else on that list has been US policy for my entire life. That would be the center of the Venn diagram where both side’s evil overlaps, but I don’t think it’s enough to call Biden himself a fascist in the same way you can actually call Trump a fascist because he himself embodies all of the values. I don’t think participating in a fascist system automatically makes you a fascist. Evil to ignore it? Yes, but that’s not the same thing.
He’s not just ignoring it though: he’s been advancing and legislating (many of) these awful policies for literally fifty years. You might quibble about where to draw the line between “fascism” and “everyday atrocities”, but the guy has done a lot of harm in his life.
That’s not to say that everything he’s done has been bad. And I’d still rather have him in government than one of today’s fully mask-off GOP fascists: there’s no doubt that this label applies to Trump or DeSantis. But it’s important to recognize that neither party has any interest in ending many of the US’s worst crimes. We’re going to need some major … let’s optimistically say “reform” … for that to happen.
I know there’s a lot about his voting record that I disagree with, but I haven’t looked close enough to see if he actively supported fascist policies on the regular. If so, I’d agree
On the subject of Biden’s segregationism: this wasn’t closeted. He said that “jungle” bit as part of his enthusiastic and long-lasting opposition to busing to integrate schools, preferring the status quo of segregation. Kamala challenged him on this during one of the 2020 primary debates, and he refused to apologize or back down from that stance.
The list of presidents is essentially a list of criminals. Hopefully Trump will be the start of a trend of prosecuting these ghouls; it’s fun to imagine.
Yep. Let’s keep pushing for it.