I am 51, bi, and to this day I am not comfortable discussing my sexuality. I don’t think young people understand how different things are now when compared to just fifteen years ago.
Yeah, I’m in my 30s and I remember how wildly different it was when I was young. There’s still a lot to be done but seeing the general shift toward acceptance is nice (where I am at least).
Yeah I’m in my 40’s, nonbinary but AMAB, but I didn’t really understand it until relatively recently. I’ve always known I didn’t fit into the male “mould”, but nobody knew what the fuck “nonbinary” was in the 80’s (let alone here in Finland, which is still really conservative compared to the saner Nordics) so naturally I just got beat up for being “gay” even though I was never attracted to boys or men. I even dressed in gender-conforming ways but I was never a “real” man for many boys and men, which naturally meant that they had to correct me with violence.
The conservative pieces of shit who insist that all these “new genders” and sexual orientations are just a recent invention and in the good old days men were men and women were women are the same ones who were beating us up and even killing us just a few decades ago (not that they’ve stopped doing that…)
I didn’t just suddenly decide to become an enby; I’ve always been one, but I didn’t even have the words for any of this until this stuff became more mainstream. And then they have the gall to act like this is all a choice, like I’d fucking choose to be something that means bigots will literally want to murder me for it. When I thought I was a man they insisted I wasn’t a real man, and after I went “yeah you’re right, I’m not a man” they insist I’m a man. Can’t fucking win with them, can we?
I am gay. I have a gay friend who uses that term in a “taking it back” sense.
I love my friend and respect him but it hurts so bad it’s to hear that. It’s honestly triggering to me because it reminds me of middle and high school.
I wish he wouldn’t use that term but maybe it is okay if we really are taking it back.
I have talked to some elder gays who seem to feel the same way about other terms like “lesbian” so maybe it really is a generational aversion to the slur of the time.
I don’t like feeling genuinely upset but I am willing to endure it if it means progression for LGBTQIA+ ppl.
Anyone who has a thought about this pls reply. Would really love to hear non-straight folks opinions on it, but even willing to hear straight folks opinions as long as they are respectful and non-violent. ♥️
Queer person checking in. I too dislike the F-slur because like you say, it takes me back to the worst periods of my life when that was the worst thing you could call a person.
When I was a kid, the common way to express that you didn’t like something was to call it gay. And usually it had nothing to do with gayness either, it’d be like “You signed up for soccer instead of hockey? That’s pretty gay.” “Math class is gay.” “Homework is gay.”
Even before I knew I was queer that bothered me. And the funny thing was if you called someone out for it, they’d weasel out of it by saying they didn’t have anything against gay people, you just call things gay if you don’t like them. They just didn’t see how that was wrong which made it even more frustrating to me. Like, they admit that gay = bad but then say they have nothing against gays? Well, what more can you expect from children?
Nowadays it doesn’t seem like things being gay is so bad. I’ve definitely proudly called things gay, and it feels like the word ‘gay’ is being taken back. So with time maybe that can happen with the F-slur, but for me now it’s still a super triggering thing.
At least gay has some positive etymological history as well as negative. F-- only has two meanings, and the vastly more common one is incredibly violent. The only thing I’ve seen remotely close to trying to “take that word back” is maybe Martin in the Simpsons in a throw-away gag about his pure nerdy naivete. And that’s not particularly close.
I think I remember that bit, Martin was trying to convince us that “apes together strong” but the boys weren’t having it. He used the two-syllable pronunciation too, which I’d relate to using the N-word with a hard R.
I don’t really relate that bit to “taking the word back” though because I guess I don’t think of Martin as being gay. I mean, he’s 10 years old so he probably isn’t really anything yet. Then again, he is often shown to be effete and I’m sure some of the kids have called him gay before.
To me that joke was all about shock factor. It was like saying “Hey, look at this dirty word we just got away with saying on television! It’s not dirty because we used it correctly, instead of the way you expect to hear it!”
Ok, if I may make a jovial tangent for a moment: I love that you used the phrase “elder gays”. It evokes imagery of this high council of gays where they hold tribunals and wear robes, and have stereotypically gay music playing in the background as if it were your own version of Gregorian chants echoing through the hallowed halls of gaydom.
I feel like it’s been taken back for a while already. A gay community in the states has a dance party they call “f@g bash” which made me wince the first time I heard it. But if anyone has a problem with it I haven’t heard about it and it’s been ongoing for several years.
Everything that wasn’t Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, Clint Eastwood, Chuck Norris, et all, was considered effeminate: “gay”. Using words like “effeminate “: “gay”. Guys piercing anything other than their left ear: “gay”. Not being cool: “gay”.
Yep. I lived as a teenager through that era. It was all pervasive on the male identity.
If you go through my posting history, you’ll see that I know a guy who is my age who is still stuck in that mindset. He’s 53, but still likes to brag aobut fistfights in his 20’s, and presents this “I’m the most Badass who ever Badassed in history” persona that was normal at the time. It’s like he’s still 15 in his mind, which he certainly is. It’s pathetic.
He also still thinks Hair Metal is the best music ever made, Steven Seagal is a badass, and everything in life can be broken down into the dichotomy of it’s either BADASS or PUSSY. It’s interesting if it wasn’t so annoying, and obnoxious. I used to feel sorry for the guy, but over time learned it’s just malignant narcissism and psychopathy. It’s a good thing he’s mostly all mouth, or he would’ve been at Charlottesville or the Capitol on Jan 6. It wouldn’t surprise me if he eventually shot some place up, because of the “Blue Haired Feminazis and the Libcucks.” Because Fox, Matt Walsh, and Ben Shapiro told him what to think.
Queerphobia is still baked into our language. These days it’s all the rage to call people “narcissist” as an insult. Narcissus the Greek boy was put to death by the gods for not dating anyone. The word is aphobic and pedophilic.
The story is that he was so vain that he fell in love with, or was so horny for, his own reflection that he died.
Some versions have him starving to death because looking at himself was a higher priority that eating, others have him kill himself because he couldn’t marry/fuck himself. Nothing to do with him “not dating anyone”.
I think he was a teen in the story, but since no one was fucking, I am not so sure it was pedophillic
I came out when I was 14 - 26 years ago (albeit as bisexual, because I didn’t know the right words yet) and I felt safe enough to do it because I knew my parents would be supportive, but in the broader world, what I mostly got was, “you’re saying that for attention,” and a lot of gross comments from teenage boys, and that was far less awful than what queer boys got, if they were even able to be out. And then Matthew Shepard was killed the next year a couple of hours from where I lived and it was like oh fuck, maybe I’ll just stick to boys because it’s not as safe as I thought.
I know kids aren’t always safe now, either, and no one in the LGBTQ+ community is safe in many parts of the world, but it really is so different already. We just have to make sure they know how much better it is, and how much better it still could be, and don’t get complacent, because we could be back to hiding the love(s) of our lives very quickly.
It’s odd how much things change and how much they stay the same. An interesting, difficult to notice language shift amongst kids is the complete absence of context for some pejorative uses of “gay.” For instance, the catchall rejection “no way, that’s gay” would elicit confusion first and possibly indignation after. However, other pejorative uses of “gay” still exist, for instance conflating homosexuality with femininity, with femininity having a negative connotation. It’s a partial extinction of meaning and I kinda love it.
All of that to say, the future is looking up in select ways and I’m all about those minuscule victories.
I’m noticing quite the same with vegetarianism. I became vegetarian around 15 years ago, when it was still a marginalized group of people. Somehow also particularly as a man, my eating habits felt like a personal affront to other men, at least based on their reaction.
I generally don’t tell people these days, if I can avoid it, despite having had multiple colleagues that were openly vegetarian/vegan. Like, at one point, I felt like the outsider, because I had three veggie colleagues discussing veggie food and I felt like I couldn’t participate without blowing my cover, so to speak.
Fucking ridiculous, the amount of emotional abuse one goes through, for not wanting to eat meat or liking humans.
I am 51, bi, and to this day I am not comfortable discussing my sexuality. I don’t think young people understand how different things are now when compared to just fifteen years ago.
Yeah, I’m in my 30s and I remember how wildly different it was when I was young. There’s still a lot to be done but seeing the general shift toward acceptance is nice (where I am at least).
Yeah I’m in my 40’s, nonbinary but AMAB, but I didn’t really understand it until relatively recently. I’ve always known I didn’t fit into the male “mould”, but nobody knew what the fuck “nonbinary” was in the 80’s (let alone here in Finland, which is still really conservative compared to the saner Nordics) so naturally I just got beat up for being “gay” even though I was never attracted to boys or men. I even dressed in gender-conforming ways but I was never a “real” man for many boys and men, which naturally meant that they had to correct me with violence.
The conservative pieces of shit who insist that all these “new genders” and sexual orientations are just a recent invention and in the good old days men were men and women were women are the same ones who were beating us up and even killing us just a few decades ago (not that they’ve stopped doing that…)
I didn’t just suddenly decide to become an enby; I’ve always been one, but I didn’t even have the words for any of this until this stuff became more mainstream. And then they have the gall to act like this is all a choice, like I’d fucking choose to be something that means bigots will literally want to murder me for it. When I thought I was a man they insisted I wasn’t a real man, and after I went “yeah you’re right, I’m not a man” they insist I’m a man. Can’t fucking win with them, can we?
kiitos, kun olet ❤
So you remember when the worst insult you could call a man was “F@g.” I do. Not idiot, or moron, or dumbass. “F@g.”
That’s still burned into my brain. I don’t say it, but when I’m angry, it’s right there on the tip of my tongue.
I am gay. I have a gay friend who uses that term in a “taking it back” sense.
I love my friend and respect him but it hurts so bad it’s to hear that. It’s honestly triggering to me because it reminds me of middle and high school.
I wish he wouldn’t use that term but maybe it is okay if we really are taking it back.
I have talked to some elder gays who seem to feel the same way about other terms like “lesbian” so maybe it really is a generational aversion to the slur of the time.
I don’t like feeling genuinely upset but I am willing to endure it if it means progression for LGBTQIA+ ppl.
Anyone who has a thought about this pls reply. Would really love to hear non-straight folks opinions on it, but even willing to hear straight folks opinions as long as they are respectful and non-violent. ♥️
Queer person checking in. I too dislike the F-slur because like you say, it takes me back to the worst periods of my life when that was the worst thing you could call a person.
When I was a kid, the common way to express that you didn’t like something was to call it gay. And usually it had nothing to do with gayness either, it’d be like “You signed up for soccer instead of hockey? That’s pretty gay.” “Math class is gay.” “Homework is gay.”
Even before I knew I was queer that bothered me. And the funny thing was if you called someone out for it, they’d weasel out of it by saying they didn’t have anything against gay people, you just call things gay if you don’t like them. They just didn’t see how that was wrong which made it even more frustrating to me. Like, they admit that gay = bad but then say they have nothing against gays? Well, what more can you expect from children?
Nowadays it doesn’t seem like things being gay is so bad. I’ve definitely proudly called things gay, and it feels like the word ‘gay’ is being taken back. So with time maybe that can happen with the F-slur, but for me now it’s still a super triggering thing.
At least gay has some positive etymological history as well as negative. F-- only has two meanings, and the vastly more common one is incredibly violent. The only thing I’ve seen remotely close to trying to “take that word back” is maybe Martin in the Simpsons in a throw-away gag about his pure nerdy naivete. And that’s not particularly close.
I think I remember that bit, Martin was trying to convince us that “apes together strong” but the boys weren’t having it. He used the two-syllable pronunciation too, which I’d relate to using the N-word with a hard R.
I don’t really relate that bit to “taking the word back” though because I guess I don’t think of Martin as being gay. I mean, he’s 10 years old so he probably isn’t really anything yet. Then again, he is often shown to be effete and I’m sure some of the kids have called him gay before.
To me that joke was all about shock factor. It was like saying “Hey, look at this dirty word we just got away with saying on television! It’s not dirty because we used it correctly, instead of the way you expect to hear it!”
Ok, if I may make a jovial tangent for a moment: I love that you used the phrase “elder gays”. It evokes imagery of this high council of gays where they hold tribunals and wear robes, and have stereotypically gay music playing in the background as if it were your own version of Gregorian chants echoing through the hallowed halls of gaydom.
That would be so epic. And yes, I have adhd. 😁
I feel like it’s been taken back for a while already. A gay community in the states has a dance party they call “f@g bash” which made me wince the first time I heard it. But if anyone has a problem with it I haven’t heard about it and it’s been ongoing for several years.
deleted by creator
I’ve had to hear the F-slur at EVERY ONE of my workplaces. I’m middle aged and in tech. Makes me want to cry…
At the funeral of some homophobe straight man who finally gets a taste of his own medicine 💅
Exactly. Or when something is considered weak, or lame, or effeminate… “Gay.”
Everything that wasn’t Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, Clint Eastwood, Chuck Norris, et all, was considered effeminate: “gay”. Using words like “effeminate “: “gay”. Guys piercing anything other than their left ear: “gay”. Not being cool: “gay”.
Yep. I lived as a teenager through that era. It was all pervasive on the male identity.
If you go through my posting history, you’ll see that I know a guy who is my age who is still stuck in that mindset. He’s 53, but still likes to brag aobut fistfights in his 20’s, and presents this “I’m the most Badass who ever Badassed in history” persona that was normal at the time. It’s like he’s still 15 in his mind, which he certainly is. It’s pathetic.
He also still thinks Hair Metal is the best music ever made, Steven Seagal is a badass, and everything in life can be broken down into the dichotomy of it’s either BADASS or PUSSY. It’s interesting if it wasn’t so annoying, and obnoxious. I used to feel sorry for the guy, but over time learned it’s just malignant narcissism and psychopathy. It’s a good thing he’s mostly all mouth, or he would’ve been at Charlottesville or the Capitol on Jan 6. It wouldn’t surprise me if he eventually shot some place up, because of the “Blue Haired Feminazis and the Libcucks.” Because Fox, Matt Walsh, and Ben Shapiro told him what to think.
A schoolmate used to say “If you do X, you are gay”. Every time he said that, i did X
Queerphobia is still baked into our language. These days it’s all the rage to call people “narcissist” as an insult. Narcissus the Greek boy was put to death by the gods for not dating anyone. The word is aphobic and pedophilic.
The story is that he was so vain that he fell in love with, or was so horny for, his own reflection that he died.
Some versions have him starving to death because looking at himself was a higher priority that eating, others have him kill himself because he couldn’t marry/fuck himself. Nothing to do with him “not dating anyone”.
I think he was a teen in the story, but since no one was fucking, I am not so sure it was pedophillic
Nemesis cursed him to fall in love with his reflection in answer to the prayers of a spurned suitor
Aww, you’re so clever. Cute. You’re that “Well, actually…” contrarian, aren’t you? See how that works out for.
That is absolutely not why people use narcissist as an insult. Like bro what are you smoking.
What a wild take. Have you read the story recently?
I came out when I was 14 - 26 years ago (albeit as bisexual, because I didn’t know the right words yet) and I felt safe enough to do it because I knew my parents would be supportive, but in the broader world, what I mostly got was, “you’re saying that for attention,” and a lot of gross comments from teenage boys, and that was far less awful than what queer boys got, if they were even able to be out. And then Matthew Shepard was killed the next year a couple of hours from where I lived and it was like oh fuck, maybe I’ll just stick to boys because it’s not as safe as I thought.
I know kids aren’t always safe now, either, and no one in the LGBTQ+ community is safe in many parts of the world, but it really is so different already. We just have to make sure they know how much better it is, and how much better it still could be, and don’t get complacent, because we could be back to hiding the love(s) of our lives very quickly.
Certain people want it to go back to the way it was: stay in the closet, or die. I’m not kidding.
It’s odd how much things change and how much they stay the same. An interesting, difficult to notice language shift amongst kids is the complete absence of context for some pejorative uses of “gay.” For instance, the catchall rejection “no way, that’s gay” would elicit confusion first and possibly indignation after. However, other pejorative uses of “gay” still exist, for instance conflating homosexuality with femininity, with femininity having a negative connotation. It’s a partial extinction of meaning and I kinda love it.
All of that to say, the future is looking up in select ways and I’m all about those minuscule victories.
I’m noticing quite the same with vegetarianism. I became vegetarian around 15 years ago, when it was still a marginalized group of people. Somehow also particularly as a man, my eating habits felt like a personal affront to other men, at least based on their reaction.
I generally don’t tell people these days, if I can avoid it, despite having had multiple colleagues that were openly vegetarian/vegan. Like, at one point, I felt like the outsider, because I had three veggie colleagues discussing veggie food and I felt like I couldn’t participate without blowing my cover, so to speak.
Fucking ridiculous, the amount of emotional abuse one goes through, for not wanting to eat meat or liking humans.