Yeah I get that. It’s just fundamentally shit and I’m not convinced it’s good tactics. The court will make a preliminary ruling (probably in favour of South Africa) in a few weeks or so. It will be on record that Biden has supported a genocide.
Has Trump started calling Biden “Genocide Joe” yet? How do you think that is going to go? The last election was scarily close. What if Trump does his usual “ramble with no apparent plan” thing and makes some anti-Israel statement because of the obvious reality that we and even he can see clearly? I guess what I’m saying is that it’s kind of leaving him an open goal. What’s the point, again?
Has Trump started calling Biden “Genocide Joe” yet? How do you think that is going to go?
Poorly. If there’s anything his base hates more than liberals, it’s brown people and Muslims. Not only that, but the Israeli lobby is extremely strong in US politics.
The last election was scarily close. What if Trump does his usual “ramble with no apparent plan” thing and makes some anti-Israel statement because of the obvious reality that we and even he can see clearly?
You’re kidding, right? He’ll brag about how he would have given Israel so much more support than ‘Sleepy Joe’ and that he’s Israel’s best friend, the best president for Israel ever. Not only that, but making an anti-Israel statement would lose Trump more votes than it gains him - anti-Israel positions simply are not popular in the electorate currently.
This is the same guy that recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital despite objections from both sides of the aisle. Trump loves the Israeli far-right too much to turn against them on humanitarian grounds.
I guess what I’m saying is that it’s kind of leaving him an open goal. What’s the point, again?
For me, the point is that Biden is the best we are realistically gonna get at this point in time. If we magicked up an anti-Israel candidate to take his place, that would still leave the issue of anti-Israel policies remaining deeply unpopular with the electorate, and that candidate, subsequently, losing short of some equally magicked-up gilded tongue. In light of that, treating this as an issue to vote against Biden for, or abstain, is nothing more than handing over the presidency to Trump for no other reason than that the vast majority of voters disagree with you and you’re upset about that (generic you, not specific you). It’s not ‘teaching’ a candidate or the party anything. It’s not contributing to a change in policy. It’s not even a meaningful objection to ongoing policy, since it’s an effective contribution to the candidate who is unambiguously worse on the subject of Israeli support.
Poorly. If there’s anything his base hates more than liberals, it’s brown people and Muslims.
Because the fascists just love jews? They hate both on racist grounds.
You’re kidding, right?
Obviously not. Needlessly impolite.
This is the same guy that recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital despite objections from both sides of the aisle. Trump loves the Israeli far-right too much to turn against them on humanitarian grounds.
Yeah fair point.
I’ll look up some statistics about voters’ views on this but I guess Lemmy gives me a bit of a warped view of people’s position on this. I did see one that backed up your point though yeah.
For me, the point is that Biden is the best we are realistically gonna get at this point in time.
I meant the point of Biden supporting Israel through this man made horror but yeah sure. You addressed that anyway.
It’s not ‘teaching’ a candidate or the party anything.
I agree there is no choice but to vote Biden anyway but this is only because they are not willing to learn and apparently have absolutely no principles they won’t sell down the river for some short term convenience. It is embarrassing for all concerned and frankly it disgusts me to my core.
Didn’t mean it impolitely, only as a challenge to the point.
I’ll look up some statistics about voters’ views on this but I guess Lemmy gives me a bit of a warped view of people’s position on this. I did see one that backed up your point though yeah.
Yeah, like, I would love if anti-Israel views were more common, but… fuck, the past 40 years or so of propaganda have done a number on popular views.
I agree there is no choice but to vote Biden anyway but this is only because they are not willing to learn and apparently have absolutely no principles they won’t sell down the river for some short term convenience. It is embarrassing for all concerned and frankly it disgusts me to my core.
Unfortunately, people with principles in politics are the exception rather than the rule.
Didn’t mean it impolitely, only as a challenge to the point.
No worries, it’s not like you bombed a hospital so I guess we can move past it, lol.
Unfortunately, people with principles in politics are the exception rather than the rule.
Unfortunate is right. Not much solace for the people with relatives in Gaza or a child trapped under the rubble that was once his home. Sorry for sending the bombs guys but politics is broken, we don’t have a viable alternative right now, try again in four years.
Im not sure but I think most folks views on israel is they want nothing to with it or really the region. The country was artifically created but its been around and if you want to say the country should just leave as they are not the original people, well as an american I can’t be that much of a hypocrite. Then you have the fact that nothing we have done in the region has ever resulted in good outcomes.
Man, I’m not one of those cretins who says “The Jews must be driven to the sea!” or any of that nonsense. I just think that Israel, as a functioning nation-state, needs to stop committing genocide, and I would really like if everyone here in the West was on the same page on that matter. I don’t think that’s a high bar to clear. Or at least, it shouldn’t be.
I get you but again some of us just want nothing to do with it and not just them but the saudis and pakistan and all of it. Granted we are in so deep in this region and plenty of americans felt the same as we were getting involved. We are in the chains of our past. Keep in mind we were not looking to get involved in ww2 to rescue legitimate democracies much less the individual people and children suffering. Whats going on over there sucks but it always has and our interference, including now, has not resulted in better outcomes.
I mean, my position is that any aid should be conditional on humane and lawful treatment of the Palestinian nation, but the chances of that are so slim that my position is effectively that we should withdraw all Israeli aid. Not that we should intervene or land troops or anything.
for me its lets not do anything. sure if our ships or allies are being threatened we defend that but otherwise nothing. of course I would like us to do the same with egypt and turkey and such but that aint gonna happen. Heck I would prefer the UN only be made up of democracies. How can you have a democratically run institution with non democratic nations.
Yeah I get that. It’s just fundamentally shit and I’m not convinced it’s good tactics. The court will make a preliminary ruling (probably in favour of South Africa) in a few weeks or so. It will be on record that Biden has supported a genocide.
Has Trump started calling Biden “Genocide Joe” yet? How do you think that is going to go? The last election was scarily close. What if Trump does his usual “ramble with no apparent plan” thing and makes some anti-Israel statement because of the obvious reality that we and even he can see clearly? I guess what I’m saying is that it’s kind of leaving him an open goal. What’s the point, again?
Poorly. If there’s anything his base hates more than liberals, it’s brown people and Muslims. Not only that, but the Israeli lobby is extremely strong in US politics.
You’re kidding, right? He’ll brag about how he would have given Israel so much more support than ‘Sleepy Joe’ and that he’s Israel’s best friend, the best president for Israel ever. Not only that, but making an anti-Israel statement would lose Trump more votes than it gains him - anti-Israel positions simply are not popular in the electorate currently.
This is the same guy that recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital despite objections from both sides of the aisle. Trump loves the Israeli far-right too much to turn against them on humanitarian grounds.
For me, the point is that Biden is the best we are realistically gonna get at this point in time. If we magicked up an anti-Israel candidate to take his place, that would still leave the issue of anti-Israel policies remaining deeply unpopular with the electorate, and that candidate, subsequently, losing short of some equally magicked-up gilded tongue. In light of that, treating this as an issue to vote against Biden for, or abstain, is nothing more than handing over the presidency to Trump for no other reason than that the vast majority of voters disagree with you and you’re upset about that (generic you, not specific you). It’s not ‘teaching’ a candidate or the party anything. It’s not contributing to a change in policy. It’s not even a meaningful objection to ongoing policy, since it’s an effective contribution to the candidate who is unambiguously worse on the subject of Israeli support.
Because the fascists just love jews? They hate both on racist grounds.
Obviously not. Needlessly impolite.
Yeah fair point.
I’ll look up some statistics about voters’ views on this but I guess Lemmy gives me a bit of a warped view of people’s position on this. I did see one that backed up your point though yeah.
I meant the point of Biden supporting Israel through this man made horror but yeah sure. You addressed that anyway.
I agree there is no choice but to vote Biden anyway but this is only because they are not willing to learn and apparently have absolutely no principles they won’t sell down the river for some short term convenience. It is embarrassing for all concerned and frankly it disgusts me to my core.
Didn’t mean it impolitely, only as a challenge to the point.
Yeah, like, I would love if anti-Israel views were more common, but… fuck, the past 40 years or so of propaganda have done a number on popular views.
Unfortunately, people with principles in politics are the exception rather than the rule.
No worries, it’s not like you bombed a hospital so I guess we can move past it, lol.
Unfortunate is right. Not much solace for the people with relatives in Gaza or a child trapped under the rubble that was once his home. Sorry for sending the bombs guys but politics is broken, we don’t have a viable alternative right now, try again in four years.
Yeah. It’s fucked up.
Im not sure but I think most folks views on israel is they want nothing to with it or really the region. The country was artifically created but its been around and if you want to say the country should just leave as they are not the original people, well as an american I can’t be that much of a hypocrite. Then you have the fact that nothing we have done in the region has ever resulted in good outcomes.
Man, I’m not one of those cretins who says “The Jews must be driven to the sea!” or any of that nonsense. I just think that Israel, as a functioning nation-state, needs to stop committing genocide, and I would really like if everyone here in the West was on the same page on that matter. I don’t think that’s a high bar to clear. Or at least, it shouldn’t be.
I get you but again some of us just want nothing to do with it and not just them but the saudis and pakistan and all of it. Granted we are in so deep in this region and plenty of americans felt the same as we were getting involved. We are in the chains of our past. Keep in mind we were not looking to get involved in ww2 to rescue legitimate democracies much less the individual people and children suffering. Whats going on over there sucks but it always has and our interference, including now, has not resulted in better outcomes.
I mean, my position is that any aid should be conditional on humane and lawful treatment of the Palestinian nation, but the chances of that are so slim that my position is effectively that we should withdraw all Israeli aid. Not that we should intervene or land troops or anything.
for me its lets not do anything. sure if our ships or allies are being threatened we defend that but otherwise nothing. of course I would like us to do the same with egypt and turkey and such but that aint gonna happen. Heck I would prefer the UN only be made up of democracies. How can you have a democratically run institution with non democratic nations.