The point you’re missing is that you have completely misunderstood me.
I wasn’t saying that wage theft isn’t a criminal act.
I was asking for legitimate source/vetting to remove noise and any other dangerous mis-judgments that happen commonly from amateur stats work. It’s very easy to make an incorrect statement based off of bad or poorly portrayed stats. Was not at all saying that they aren’t a crime, just that all the facts need to be on the table about the data so we can make true and informed judgments from it.
Hoping this clears things up, I’m not sure how much clearer I can get haha
Edit: removed a small chunk - thought you were the person I was talking to originally.
I’ve misunderstood you? Well what did you actually say?
you’re comparing groups of people that follow the laws of economics and individuals who commit a crime.
One group follows the laws of economics (as in not a crime) and the other group commits crimes? Or did you mean this part
I was just saying that wage theft and actual physical thefts are different
Which you haven’t explained how they’re different, except for the part where you’re saying one isn’t a crime and the other is.
Was not at all saying that they aren’t a crime, just that all the facts need to be on the table about the data so we can make true and informed judgments from it.
But the facts were on the table? This guy gave the numbers before the comment you replied to even existed and then there was also this guy who found the source on reddit, also before your comment. Now you could argue federation delay and you didn’t see them the first time, but if you really cared about finding the data you could’ve found the data. But I don’t think you really care that much the data because you also started your first comment with:
There’s no way that the stats here are legit stats…
Seems to me like you made up your mind before you even questioned whether they’re factual or not.
I haven’t gotten the time to look through the number yet, it’s on my list. Responding to these is pretty quick. But you’ve made up your mind about me already I guess…
I was implying in the example listed that we should be fully aware of the differences of the two items portrayed, which a good solid source usually does and was my justification for having asked for one first. Hope this clears things up.
I literally quoted the part where you said that wage theft was “groups of people that follow the laws of economics” and other types of theft being compared was “individuals who commit a crime”. The only reasonable interpretation is that you believe wage theft isn’t a crime; you are, at best, downplaying wage theft as an issue. If there’s a misunderstanding it stems entirely from you saying exactly the thing you’re being accused of saying.
You also said, and once again I’ll quote you directly:
Stealing “wages” also shouldn’t be treated the same as stealing everything out of someone’s pocket - are we talking a dollar per day?
But why not? In what way is someone stealing $100 from your wallet worse than your employer stealing $100 from your paycheck? I’d argue wage theft is in fact worse; that’s someone with power stealing from those they have power over. That is not a good thing.
I’d also like to point out that so far nobody has criticised you for asking for sources, that’s just deflection. You’re being criticised for the views you personally expressed in this thread.
So your argument is that stealing $10 ten times can’t be compared to stealing $100 once? That’s obviously nonsense.
You’ve still not addressed the fact you said wage theft is “groups [following] the laws of economics” but other theft is “individuals who commit a crime”. This is what you were being criticised for. Just so we’re absolutely clear: you separated theft into two distinct categories, one “following the laws of economics” (ie wage theft) and another “individuals who commit a crime” (ie other theft). This would mean wage theft is not committing a crime. You even literally put “crime” in scare quotes when referring to wage theft. This is what you are being criticised for. Nothing else. Not anything that you later brought up and nobody else commented on. Just that one view that you said, by yourself, unrelated to the data presented or the source of that data.
You downplayed wage theft as a crime.
Nobody’s talking about you asking for sources or commenting on specific aspects of the data because it’s not what people are pissed about. This is like if you draw a cock and balls on the Mona Lisa but when people yell at you you just refuse to acknowledge it and keep talking about your time in art school. Nobody cares about art school, it’s all about the cock and balls.
Not at all what I was saying, once again. I’m saying that, that fact needs to be explicitly stated, just like you did. But it isn’t here. That’s one problem.
Wage theft isn’t cut and dry and it isn’t specific at all. Here’s a definition: Wage theft occurs when employers do not pay workers according to the law. Examples of wage theft include paying less than minimum wage, not paying workers overtime, not allowing workers to take meal and rest breaks, requiring off the clock work, or taking workers’ tips.
Of the data related to wage theft and theft, I wanted a break down of what those very large definitions meant specifically here, so that we can be sure to account for everything on the table, and not round over stats into higher-level, more generalized categories.
There’s more trucks than cars on the road because businesses employee people for most of the day, most people have jobs, and there’s a high enough amount of jobs requiring driving trucks on the roads.
^ this is the logic train I’d like to follow for these stats. Not just “this wide category had wide results”
Which I will do when I have time to actually sit down and look at the stats/source.
The point you’re missing is that you have completely misunderstood me.
I wasn’t saying that wage theft isn’t a criminal act.
I was asking for legitimate source/vetting to remove noise and any other dangerous mis-judgments that happen commonly from amateur stats work. It’s very easy to make an incorrect statement based off of bad or poorly portrayed stats. Was not at all saying that they aren’t a crime, just that all the facts need to be on the table about the data so we can make true and informed judgments from it.
Hoping this clears things up, I’m not sure how much clearer I can get haha
Edit: removed a small chunk - thought you were the person I was talking to originally.
I’ve misunderstood you? Well what did you actually say?
One group follows the laws of economics (as in not a crime) and the other group commits crimes? Or did you mean this part
Which you haven’t explained how they’re different, except for the part where you’re saying one isn’t a crime and the other is.
But the facts were on the table? This guy gave the numbers before the comment you replied to even existed and then there was also this guy who found the source on reddit, also before your comment. Now you could argue federation delay and you didn’t see them the first time, but if you really cared about finding the data you could’ve found the data. But I don’t think you really care that much the data because you also started your first comment with:
Seems to me like you made up your mind before you even questioned whether they’re factual or not.
I haven’t gotten the time to look through the number yet, it’s on my list. Responding to these is pretty quick. But you’ve made up your mind about me already I guess…
I was implying in the example listed that we should be fully aware of the differences of the two items portrayed, which a good solid source usually does and was my justification for having asked for one first. Hope this clears things up.
I literally quoted the part where you said that wage theft was “groups of people that follow the laws of economics” and other types of theft being compared was “individuals who commit a crime”. The only reasonable interpretation is that you believe wage theft isn’t a crime; you are, at best, downplaying wage theft as an issue. If there’s a misunderstanding it stems entirely from you saying exactly the thing you’re being accused of saying.
You also said, and once again I’ll quote you directly:
But why not? In what way is someone stealing $100 from your wallet worse than your employer stealing $100 from your paycheck? I’d argue wage theft is in fact worse; that’s someone with power stealing from those they have power over. That is not a good thing.
I’d also like to point out that so far nobody has criticised you for asking for sources, that’s just deflection. You’re being criticised for the views you personally expressed in this thread.
Because theft is a one time occurrence and offense.
Wage theft is repeated.
Thefts here could also be including report-only theft where insurance fraud frequently happens and is a source of noise
Which i specifically said and you (conveniently) left out here in favor of the opinion you’ve already made up about me.
I think we can probably end this convo now.
So your argument is that stealing $10 ten times can’t be compared to stealing $100 once? That’s obviously nonsense.
You’ve still not addressed the fact you said wage theft is “groups [following] the laws of economics” but other theft is “individuals who commit a crime”. This is what you were being criticised for. Just so we’re absolutely clear: you separated theft into two distinct categories, one “following the laws of economics” (ie wage theft) and another “individuals who commit a crime” (ie other theft). This would mean wage theft is not committing a crime. You even literally put “crime” in scare quotes when referring to wage theft. This is what you are being criticised for. Nothing else. Not anything that you later brought up and nobody else commented on. Just that one view that you said, by yourself, unrelated to the data presented or the source of that data.
You downplayed wage theft as a crime.
Nobody’s talking about you asking for sources or commenting on specific aspects of the data because it’s not what people are pissed about. This is like if you draw a cock and balls on the Mona Lisa but when people yell at you you just refuse to acknowledge it and keep talking about your time in art school. Nobody cares about art school, it’s all about the cock and balls.
Not at all what I was saying, once again. I’m saying that, that fact needs to be explicitly stated, just like you did. But it isn’t here. That’s one problem.
Wage theft isn’t cut and dry and it isn’t specific at all. Here’s a definition: Wage theft occurs when employers do not pay workers according to the law. Examples of wage theft include paying less than minimum wage, not paying workers overtime, not allowing workers to take meal and rest breaks, requiring off the clock work, or taking workers’ tips.
Of the data related to wage theft and theft, I wanted a break down of what those very large definitions meant specifically here, so that we can be sure to account for everything on the table, and not round over stats into higher-level, more generalized categories.
There’s more trucks than cars on the road because businesses employee people for most of the day, most people have jobs, and there’s a high enough amount of jobs requiring driving trucks on the roads.
^ this is the logic train I’d like to follow for these stats. Not just “this wide category had wide results”
Which I will do when I have time to actually sit down and look at the stats/source.