• Cowbee@lemmy.ml
    1·
    2 months ago

    The elected government in any system is beholden to the class in power, not the masses. In Capitalism, that is the Capitalist class, which is why the cycle of constant “lesser evil” voting continues.

    The government does not have a profit motive, but a needs motive.

    It’s funny that you bring up the USSR. Despite having drastically lower income inequality than under the Tsars or in modern Capitalist Russia, GDP Per Capita steadily grew before collapsing once it liberalized, resulting in 7 million excess deaths. The citizens of the USSR also were entitled to free healthcare, education, and retiring with a state pension earlier than their US competitors. They also went from a feudal society to space in half a century.

    The USSR was absolutely corrupt, no question about it, but even in it’s corrupt state it was better for the poor than Capitalist Russia is today. We can pretty clearly track this by metrics. Russians of today have more access to luxury goods, but wealth inequality has skyrocketed and the poor struggle far more now than they did before.

    The idea that “nothing got done” in a country that made it to space before the US is ludicrous, as well as the idea that the USSR was somehow poorer than under the Romanovs. You’re inventing reality!

    This is because your highest condemnation of Socialism is that what may happen in Socialism is required by Capitalism.

    • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
      11·
      2 months ago

      The income statistic in the soviet block was greatly misleading due to simple unavailability of goods. The issue often was not not enough money but nothing worthwhile on the shelves. At least as my parents described it.

      The people had income, but it was just paper without value behind it. And yes, the motive of the government was weapons and vanity projects like the space race, so those did happed.

      • Cowbee@lemmy.ml
        1·
        2 months ago

        It was a developing country. Needs were addressed, but as Heavy Industry was prioritized over Light Industry, there were not many luxury goods.

        None of what you said goes against my points, rather, they affirm them.

        • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
          1·
          2 months ago

          What do you mean? If my choices are have less goods but capitalists also don’t get any or have a nicer life and some capitalists will have unfair luxury, I am not petty enough to choose option 1.

          • Cowbee@lemmy.ml
            1·
            2 months ago

            Those weren’t the options. The options were “Needs are freely taken care of, and soon Light Industry should take off, increasing consumer goods in the long run” or “Needs are expensive, and even though wealthier people have more access to luxury goods, the majority of people struggle more.”

            Capitalists gain off the backs of workers, not out of a vaccuum. Again, 7 million people died due to liberalization, literacy rates dropped, home ownership dropped, and debt increased.

            • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
              11·
              2 months ago

              Sorry, but if these were not the two options then why did the USSR collapse? This seems to not line up at all, though I don’t have time to look into the numbers right now. I will later.

              Edit: Also technically, even if it was true, it would confirm my point about democratically run industries.

              The USSR is making heavy investments in industry to improve its economy. It causes so much unrest USSR falls apart -> people will not voluntarily choose short term sacrifice for long term gains.

              • Cowbee@lemmy.ml
                1·
                2 months ago

                Please, feel free to look it up.

                The USSR was dissolved illegally. 77% of people wished to preserve Socialism. Liberalizing was a long process, and was done by some of the more corrupt members of the Politburo alongside the US, especially Reagan and Gorbachev. The idea that the USSR collapsed because Socialism was unpopular is fabricated and does not represent reality.

                • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
                  11·
                  2 months ago

                  Ok, now I know you are making shit up. Czechoslovakia had to be bloody invaded after the people rebelled against communism. Almost no one here wanted communism and there is still plenty people from that time alive to call you on your bullshit.

                  The USSR had to put a wall through Berlin and shoot people climbing it to keep people from running away and some still did.