@lisko@sopuli.xyz’s comment is not visible at all on the Lemmy instance while to me my comment is not visible at all on the Beehaw instance, nothing is showing in modlog though so I assume it has not been removed.
Am I unaware of a mechanic of federation occurring here? Or is something bugged?
I am now yes, for the first time I think. I’m not aware of having commented there previously and can’t find a single one in my history. It’s feasible that one may have happened but I thought I had been quite careful. I’m pretty damn sure that this action was taken not because of anything I did over there.
Edit: Not true actually I’ve had a couple, “no AI created child pornography should not be allowed” response which should not remotely be controversial.
The other time I participated there was this one which also completely followed their rules. So yeah. Banned not for the behaviour on their instance but for outside of it. As you can see, very well behaved and careful.
The way federation works, all your content gets sent to them. Including posts and comments you’ve made to lemmy.ml-communities. They’re free to not accept them per the mod/admin tools. This does not interfere with your ability to post and comment on lemmy.ml.
From what I’ve understood from the practices of the larger instances, it’s up to the individual instances what they allow to be federated to their servers.
Also, it’s difficult to reply to posts when you edit them three times while I make a reply lol
Yeah sorry about the edits, had to get that part right.
This seems… Straight up bad? It feels like if I had posted in /r/unitedkingdom and gotten banned by the mods of /r/gaming simply because they didn’t like what I posted over there in a space completely not run by them.
Should federations not be acceptant of something being outside their jurisdiction? And if they have a problem with the way another jurisdiction moderates then they should hash it out with that team or completely defederate?
Individualising defederation instead of collectivising it seems like a really bad idea. You can pretend to be an open instance in the spirit of sharing ideas via the concept of federation, taking the benefits of growth and cross-pollination, while individually defederating targeted individuals that you deem too effective.
I see what you mean, but it’s more like if you posted to /r/unitedkingdom, a copy of your posts were sent over to /r/britgaming and they feel like not all posts about the UK fits them.
I’m not the biggest fan of this system because it causes fragmentation and in one way, people can in essence be shadowbanned from all other instances.
On the other hand, there’s the challenge of federation. People can’t demand that other instances host their content. People can’t even demand that their home instance host their content, if lemmy.ml-people misbehave on lemmy.ml they will get banned.
What are you suggestions to this problem? There isn’t any grand solution to this and it plagues all federated services as far as I know.
There is a lot of good reasons why a host shouldn’t allow anybody to post anything on their site. I don’t know of many good reasons for why they should. I think most admins consider their own servers their jurisdictions. I’m always open for new perspectives.
This seems to be the current practice. A number of instances are blocking lemmygrad, wolfballs, exploding-heads etc.
I personally think it’s better to first block users that the instance doesn’t want to host the content of, then the community if it hosts unwanted content, and as a last resort block an entire instance.
From some point of views, I agree. But it’s back to the question if federations should be acceptant of something outside of their jurisdiction.
A collection of instances could start up a federation council with a set of guidelines, one of these guidelines could be “moderate within the jurisdiction of your instance and allow others to moderate within the jurisdiction of their instance” as well as “all instances of the federation must federate with all other members of the federation council” then federate under this agreement and refuse to federate with anyone that does not agree to the federation council and its terms of federation.
This would eliminate most games and make matters of disagreements between instances a matter of the federation council instead.
This isn’t how it feels as a user though. As a user, if I am responding to something that is posted to the lemmy.ml community I feel like I am posting to the lemmy.ml community. If another instance is federated to lemmy.ml that to me feels like consent to share lemmy.ml community content in return for the mutual exchange of lemmy.ml receiving lemmygrad content (or any other instance), under the understanding this cross pollination is cross pollination of userbases but also content itself which improves the reason to be on lemmy (content is why people are here) and is mutual growth at the same time.
As a user, if I comment on a lemmygrad.ml thread rehosted to here via federation, I expect the people at lemmygrad to see the comments I might make from here. I feel that I am posting to lemmygrad.ml via proxy of Lemmy. I don’t feel that I am posting to a copy of the lemmygrad.ml post rehosted on lemmy that may or may not also rehost what I post in the copy here, maybe, if they haven’t individually performed a targeted defederation of me.
I’m using lemmygrad as an example here because I want this to be about the mechanics of this function itself and how it feels as a user.
The ideal in my mind is that the communities themselves are jurisdictions of their own instances. Agreement between federated instances would be to not take action against users for their behaviour on other instances, and to maintain moderation within their own instance and at behaviour specifically within their own instance. If they don’t want like how another instance moderates they can hash it out with that instance via the federation backchannels or leave the federation entirely and not receive the benefits of the growth or cross pollination of ideas and content that comes with being part of the federation. That also just fundamentally makes more sense from a user experience perspective, that you are following the rules of whatever instance you are posting or commenting to, and the subrules of the community within that instance and won’t be subject to what feel like bizarre overreaches of jurisdiction or ideologically targeted silencing.
Moderation on the fediverse seems to be quite a fashionable topic those weeks 😄 See for example the latest thread in a serie of @roko 's
This post was really interesting, thanks for sharing it. It communicates basically the same problem I’m trying to communicate here, but it does so from the format of a different platform. Lemmy has unique issues with this format because of the reddit-clone nature of it compared to platforms that are twitter-clone and so on, which each get their own unique issues I assume.