- cross-posted to:
- pulse_of_truth@infosec.pub
- cross-posted to:
- pulse_of_truth@infosec.pub
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The issue is not that the parts aren’t titanium, its that there isn’t a paper trail documenting the titanium.
This is an issue, because improperly forged titanium can have issues that makes it unsuitably weak for its intended purpose. Having documentation showing where the materials came from, when it was inspected for defects and when it was manufactured is critical for safety.
United flight 232 had an engine explode in part due to defective titanium. This is a real safety concern.
Though the headline says boeing, the article mentions these undocumented parts being found in airbus planes as well. Its an industry problem, not a Boeing specific one.
It is annoying how the media keeps riding the Boeing name for the clicks. Yes, Boeing fucked up, they aren’t the only one in aerospace fucking up.
Did they “fuck up” though? Or did they intentionally fire their best people in order to save money, knowing the consequences would be cheaper than the profit made.
Yeah, didn’t mean to come across as an apologist. Call a shit spade a shit spade. Just annoyed with the media riding the name trolley for ad clicks.
The problem is it’s actually is sorta Boeing’s fuck up here. The questionable source titanium was caught at spirit aerospace who manufactures parts for Boeing and airbus. Spirit aerospace was originally a Boeing factory that was spun off into its own company in 2005 in one of Boeing idiodic stock pump schemes. Boeing on paper does not have control over spirit aerospace but all of spirit’s leadership came from Boeing with their CEO having worked for Boeing for 31 years. Boeing also has a lot of pull inside spirit being their largest customer by a significant margin. Boeing is currently in talks of buying back spirit aerospace to fix the mess they got themselves into.
Well the alternative here would have been to not say anything and cover it up. They found counterfeit material in their inventory and raised the alarm, nothing better they could have done. I don’t know what the acquisition process was for that stock, maybe they did fuck up by buying it, but once you realize the problem is there you have to say something or people die.
We are really going to have to wait for the FAA’s investigation because there’s still all sorts of questions about their acquisition process and where exactly was the certificate forged. The big question i have thought was when did spirit discover that the certificates were forged because they are claiming parts manufactured all the way back in 2019 were effected. I believe some suspicion on the side of spirit is warranted because this is the same company that is currently being investigated on claims that they were covering up safety issues. Not to speculate too much but I wouldn’t be surprised if spirit knew the titanium was fraudulent as early as 2019 and are only now doing something about it because they are being investigated for other issues and wanted to control the narrative.
There’s never a good reason to do that. If you find bad material pretty much all incentives align to have you report it.
A lot of it was in their 787 global manufacturing push.
This is the first headline I have seen that excluded Airbus
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I brought up that flight to highlight the importance of these paper trails, as defective titanium can fail catastrophically.
The engine exploded “in part due to” the engine manufacturer’s failure in quality control, but also the airline’s maintenance department failing to find the fatigue cracks during maintenance checks.
Boeing was not involved in flight 232, the plane was a DC-10.
Boeing was not involved in flight 232, the plane was a DC-10.
At the time no, but McDonnell-Douglas made the DC-10 and after their merger with Boeing in 1997 has been largely responsible for the downfall of Boeing, by bringing their corporate culture over.
The engine exploded “in part due to” the engine manufacturer’s failure in quality control, but also the airline’s maintenance department failing to find the fatigue cracks during maintenance checks.
IIRC the type of fatigue crack wouldn’t have been noticed by the inspection methods of the time during its last check. Inspections were improved as a result of the investigation into United 232.
What? Read the article? Are you fucking crazy?
Well you see, when an executive loves money very much…
There needs to be a new rule where when a headline asks why something sucks ass so tragically the answer is capitalism. It’s always capitalism.
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I can feel the anarchist class consciousness developing 🤤🤤🤤
Boeing put it there.
Too simple. You are hereby banned from government work.
Reason(s) per Standard Operating Procedure 420.69(f):
- Not enough forms
- Not enough signatures
- Did not acquire approval from the ethics board, Privacy Office, Information Technology Office, Custodial Services, & Chief of Inefficiency
- Absolute lack of meetings and round tables
- No use of allocated funds
- Does not give cause for more bureaucracy
- No organizational chart
- Not self-aggrandizing
You may file an appeal with the Appeals Board by completing form SF-80085-rev accessible at appeals.state.gov/brokenlink.lol
We all make fun of it, but for critical applications like aviation, this is why there is a paper trail for everything. Someone certified that as being titanium, and it probably only took minutes to find out whom.
So the only question is what consequences that supplier faces
Edit: I see it was traced to a Chinese supplier who forfeited the paper trail and it was noticed in the first place because it didn’t meet requirements. Seems like an open-shut case, but maybe this will put some teeth in the trade war some people seem intent on starting
And had the people planning to spill the beans killed
“Titanium is how much? Fuck it use the fake stuff, I need a new super yacht. What’s the worst that can happen, we have to assassinate some whistle-blowers? Hahahahahahaha we can do whatever we want!” - Boeing Executive
There I figured it out for you
It’s true and funny but I cannot enjoy Dilbert as much knowing Scott Adams is a fucking lunatic.
Bad people often make good art.
“Trytanium”
Dotanium or donotanium there is no trytanium!
When is the government going to realize that capitalism is becoming a security risk for them.
The amount of companies that they need to rely on to keep their edge on the world stage is staggering. And all that needs to happen is a few of those companies that don’t have developed alternatives making individual decisions to do things cheaper or for more profit will eventually lead to problems like this in critical infrastructure that other countries can take advantage of.
If they don’t punish microsoft for hiding a vulnerability that let to the largest hack of any government in the history of computers, then they’re not going to really punish boeng either.
Any system that rewards achievements of any kind work inventions or whatever, will have people cheat to fake it to get the reward. Even if there is no currency and it’s only for instance prestige.
Capitalism is bad, which is why it is regulated. But it’s the least bad system we have for now, so it all depends on good regulation.
This attempt to make equivalent different systems that reward achievements doesn’t hold water when you think about the real world outcomes of different examples. E.g. rewards for research in the scientific community vs rewarding profit maximization in corporate America. There’s a vast trough of dead and sick people separating the two, among other differences.
Capitalism successfully captures regulation (and democracy). The only mechanism that I’m aware of which has shown evidence to resist that is labor organization. But clearly that can be restrained too after a while.
Boeing killed John Barnett
I can tell you how. To put it simply there was a drive for short term profits that overrode the need for due dilligence in quality-control which pushed them to purchase untested materials from questionable sources. I Don’t have any sources or documentation to back up this specific case but it’s historically how these industrial failures and oversites always occur. —If this post sounds like a case of Libel or defamation to you then I encourage you to think of it merely as a postulated suspicion instead.
Well, Airbus was victim to the fraud as well. The supplier created fake documentation. Both Boeing, Spirit and Airbus have all said the tested the discrepant metal and it was the correct alloy it conformed to standards. This isn’t the first time fraudulent parts have infected aviation supply, and likely won’t be the last.
It probably got into the planes with rivets, cause titanium is hard to weld.
A: Boeing put it there.
Reason: It was cheaper
I’ll take X company cheaped out, bought from unreliable, dog shit materials provider in country Y (who either purposely or neglectfully knew what they were doing, as a manufacturer), and now has a scape goat despite the root of the issue for 5000 please.
I worked in aerospace manufacturing for a long time. My company (big one) used only certain suppliers so if anything the suppliers are getting the cheap stuff to rip off those who buy for manufacturing. Who were bought from was strictly controlled but who watches the watchmen or metalmen?
And did the metalmen get acquired by some bean men who understand beans but not metal? 🤔
Ok, well, you see…they accidentally, and then BAM fake titanium.
Isn’t the headline misleading? Keep seeing clickbait headlines about this, but I thought it was a matter of improper documentation, not that it wasn’t actually titanium.
So tired of what passes for “journalism” these days. Thanks, RepubliQans! /s
Pretty much yes. Proper documentation is important for safety, but calling the itself titanium fake is incredibly dishonest.
The rest of the headline doesn’t fair any better.
The planes that included components made with the material were… Boeing 737 Max and 787 Dreamliner airliners as well as Airbus A220 jets
Headline only mentions one of the involved manufacturers, misrepresenting it as a boeing problem because they know what will drive clicks.
Also I think that airbus are implicated as well but as Boeing are the big bad let’s not worry about that
