To be fair, a lot of the content on that antiwork sub was basically “communism is when we don’t have to work.” The whole thing reeked of propaganda intended to make the left look stupid.
Why is it that everytime someone on the left does something stupid online, it’s automatically propaganda? Why can’t it just be the case that there are a lot of politically and generally uneducated people that are part of the movement, which is consistent with every populist movement for all time? This has to be reckoned with and mitigated if the left ever wants to actually hold power and do something with it.
It’s funny you should ask. I use this language specifically because when I say that leftist communities are filled with cringe populism and bad political science, I get banned from .ml pretty reliably. Calling it out as propaganda seems to play better most of the time.
Lol I guess it wouldn’t bother me much. I’m a SocDem, which makes me fail the purity tests pretty quickly. I just want a movement with a leftist heart and a pragmatic head, so we can actually win rights instead of performing while the Titanic sinks.
It feels like a combination of young people without any experience in politics trying to enact change without the ability to strategize and bad actors intentionally trying to create divisive political actions.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
This is it. But there are actual mature voices over there. I truly believe that dessalines and his kin knows better than to shelter this obvious sectarian and campist influence but just doesn’t have the time to deal with it. Also it’s legitimately a hard problem to pare down either way.
I really wanted .ml to be a more academic oriented leftist community and actually made an effort to contribute such content. It is truly a shame that this kind of content is not only unwelcome, but unallowed.
While I absolutely think the latter exists, I just cannot justify assuming that every dumb opinion I see from someone I am on the same “side” with is some evil spy. Any movement with that sort of view will eat itself alive in no time. Starting to see traitors in your midst is falling into their trap just as much as the conservative who thinks that’s what leftist thought is defined by.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
Yeah the mod didn’t announce they were doing it, there was an active top level post saying the community didn’t want anyone to take the interview.
They went rogue, did it anyway, made the subreddit and themselves look like a fucking dunce and a half. They didn’t even clean their god damn room, there was like dirty laundry and shit in the background.
Asinine. It could’ve been a catalyst moment for a lot of people if someone with some media training had taken the interview, or if we had said nothing.
To be fair, nobody should have to work once Communism is achieved. During socialism sure. Socialism (worker ownership of MoP) incentives automation. Eventually there would be no necessary labor nor resource scarcity. Which is the only way I see communism being fully achieved. FALSC( Fully automated luxury space communism).
Once we start mining asteroids that will quickly solve scarcity for metals. Food is already solved production wise. Just need to figure out distribution. Which is currently not solved just because it’s not profitable.
I can’t imagine that a sub against working is against working. Maybe they should have picked a better name?
There are always a few people who take things to extremes and make themselves look bad. The person who ended up being interviewed on Fox News made themselves look foolish on their own, the only real issue there was their views being treated as a thing that the majority of the left thinks.
Agreed. The group make itself look bad. The mod is what everyone was expecting and didn’t disappoint in the interview. I haven’t laughed that hard in years.
To be fair, a lot of the content on that antiwork sub was basically “communism is when we don’t have to work.” The whole thing reeked of propaganda intended to make the left look stupid.
Why is it that everytime someone on the left does something stupid online, it’s automatically propaganda? Why can’t it just be the case that there are a lot of politically and generally uneducated people that are part of the movement, which is consistent with every populist movement for all time? This has to be reckoned with and mitigated if the left ever wants to actually hold power and do something with it.
It’s funny you should ask. I use this language specifically because when I say that leftist communities are filled with cringe populism and bad political science, I get banned from .ml pretty reliably. Calling it out as propaganda seems to play better most of the time.
Lol I guess it wouldn’t bother me much. I’m a SocDem, which makes me fail the purity tests pretty quickly. I just want a movement with a leftist heart and a pragmatic head, so we can actually win rights instead of performing while the Titanic sinks.
It feels like a combination of young people without any experience in politics trying to enact change without the ability to strategize and bad actors intentionally trying to create divisive political actions.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
This is it. But there are actual mature voices over there. I truly believe that dessalines and his kin knows better than to shelter this obvious sectarian and campist influence but just doesn’t have the time to deal with it. Also it’s legitimately a hard problem to pare down either way.
I really wanted .ml to be a more academic oriented leftist community and actually made an effort to contribute such content. It is truly a shame that this kind of content is not only unwelcome, but unallowed.
While I absolutely think the latter exists, I just cannot justify assuming that every dumb opinion I see from someone I am on the same “side” with is some evil spy. Any movement with that sort of view will eat itself alive in no time. Starting to see traitors in your midst is falling into their trap just as much as the conservative who thinks that’s what leftist thought is defined by.
I completely agree.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
And dont forget the lifelong political philosophers that love spaces like Reddit and the Fediverse where they can debate and argue. It’s not that Communism is inherently bad from any theoretical or philosophical stand-point. And I’ll even agree that at least some part of the failure of pretty much all communist states was caused by external actors working hard to make them fail. But even if we could get everyone aboard on that thinking the step is still absolutely massive to go from any western nation today to full on communism. And this isn’t some new line of thinking either. It’s why SocDem even became a thing way back, which was very unpopular right from the start and opposed by Marx himself (the notion of gradual reform, one policy at a time and of compromising to make at least some progress).
In some ways I admire the 50+ year old die hard commies that have spent so much time and energy into this, that really know that it’ll work. But that can at best get 20 people to attend a meeting because most of us actually live OK lives, we want changes yes, we want progress and not conservative measures yes but full on revolution? Forgo private ownership completely and everyone gets a fair share? We can’t even trust our neighbors to not steal our packages from our porch, nor our representatives to not fuck us over for some low ball lobbyist money and we are to trust them with basically absolute power for however long it will take to set up a new nation, constitution and government post revolution. Just… No.
This whole thread is spitting facts
Nah.
A couple idiots made the sub. But then it got popular and most of its users were way more rational than the people who created it.
But they were still the ones in charge of it.
So when Faux News reached out for an interview, they 100% believed they represented their user base and it would be a good idea.
If I’m remembering right, the mod didn’t even announce they were doing it. The sub didn’t find out till it was aired.
And Faux portrayed the idiot that came on as a perfect representation of all users of the sub.
Yeah the mod didn’t announce they were doing it, there was an active top level post saying the community didn’t want anyone to take the interview.
They went rogue, did it anyway, made the subreddit and themselves look like a fucking dunce and a half. They didn’t even clean their god damn room, there was like dirty laundry and shit in the background.
Asinine. It could’ve been a catalyst moment for a lot of people if someone with some media training had taken the interview, or if we had said nothing.
To be fair, nobody should have to work once Communism is achieved. During socialism sure. Socialism (worker ownership of MoP) incentives automation. Eventually there would be no necessary labor nor resource scarcity. Which is the only way I see communism being fully achieved. FALSC( Fully automated luxury space communism).
Fully Automated Luxury GAY Space Communism!
FML: Fabulous Marxist Leninism.
The idea that there will never been any resource scarcity is a pipe dream
Once we start mining asteroids that will quickly solve scarcity for metals. Food is already solved production wise. Just need to figure out distribution. Which is currently not solved just because it’s not profitable.
I can’t imagine that a sub against working is against working. Maybe they should have picked a better name?
There are always a few people who take things to extremes and make themselves look bad. The person who ended up being interviewed on Fox News made themselves look foolish on their own, the only real issue there was their views being treated as a thing that the majority of the left thinks.
Got some bad news for you…
Agreed. The group make itself look bad. The mod is what everyone was expecting and didn’t disappoint in the interview. I haven’t laughed that hard in years.