- cross-posted to:
- fuck_cars@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- fuck_cars@lemmy.ml
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That photo is from Helsinki. Around Eira I think?
I was thinking Vallila but you’re probably right!
You are right. This is in Vallila, I tracked down the red building on the right, it is Mäkelänkatu 19.
This tramline used to be my commute briefly. Very picturesque
No, it’s Vallila. Found an article where they had interviewed the photographer Ants Vahter.
My US city put one in in downtown. It would be fine should they have their own lane that bypassed traffic, but no thoughts were given to it’s actual implementation. They picked a loop path that goes from two lanes to one frequently. They simply placed the track on the road and kept car street parking on the other side. So you get the pleasure of waiting in traffic on the tram and the tram getting stuck because someone poorly parked their monster truck. Top that off with it was open 10am til 6pm when it first started, but downtown doesn’t have much going on during the day. They’ve changed times now but it barely scratches the surface of use issues. As someone fully for public transportation, this has been so poorly done it’s very frustrating. I do hope they have more fixes in the future.
Most US cities are doing trams for tourist purposes not transport. The bus is better than a tram in almost all cases, it doesn’t need track maintenance ,can go around obstacles, can change routes quickly if you didn’t get it perfect in advance.
The disadvantage of a bus is they can hold 1)at most 100 people, and can’t come more often than every 5 minutes. If you are running into that limit a tram might be right for you. (Even then think carefully , a subway might be better)
We have very similar trams here, they are quite neat when they travel in their regular 10 minute interval. But once they go into night mode e.g. every 30 minutes it makes them a lot less useful further outside of the city. But thats critique on a high level, they perform really well and in 95% of cases I don’t have to check a timetable to catch one to work or uni.
I wish my city would have trams, they’re one of the best means of transit
I have fond memories of a couple of metro lines in Berlin that had part of their routes going thru parks without the usual road the metros go along. It always gave me a little feeling of magic when suddenly we were going thru beautiful nature instead of the Big City.
@poVoq It really is Peak Urbanism! I can’t stress enough how great it is to have a green track for trams. Here’s an example:
Tram line in Liviu Rebreanu street, Bucharest, before modernizing:
A picture of the old tracks, next to the new tracks:
Other ones, with old tracks still intact:
Nowadays, after years of modernization works, it looks like this:
Google Maps Street View link from the area (just navigate ahead).
While the area is more congested indeed, trams run smoothly through, and drivers can no longer get in the way of trams unless they want to get stuck in the mud.
… and you call these grassy trams despite them clearly driving on lichen…
Also check out Gothenburg/Göteborg in Sweden. There’s some nice grassy tram tracks there too.
Looks like Helsinki trams… some sections of their lines are quite beautiful in spring/summer.
Yeah, I always really liked those two weeks when I lived there.
Yeah looks like it was taken around Käpylä
Wtf! Where is this? China ?
Put them underground
Mass transit must scale. An underground metro rail system is the most valuable intracity transit system, but it does not offer full value. A high-value comprehensive transit system also offers transit systems for getting users to the underground metro rail system from their local sources and destinations. This is usually done by trams, buses, or treating trams as the intermediary value transit system between buses and underground metro rail systems. If you rely exclusively on a high cost, high-value system like an underground metro rail system, your system will not be comprehensive enough as it will not reach all of your city’s citizens, leaving many to rely on car infrastructure to get to and from the metro rail system stops.
Here in Greece, only one city (the capital) has an underground metro rail system and the second largest city has its metro system being built for the last ~20-30 YEARS. That city used to have a tram decades ago, but they removed it and now it only has buses/taxis…
You may ask why didn’t they make a new tram… Well, money/bribery (~most likely). That city may not be ideal for a tram, but still they could work it out and have it fixed much much sooner and cheaper and in the meantime the could be building the metro… It said the main part will be finished by the end of the year (though this was said multiple times in the past)…
YUP. Don’t refuse to create ad-hoc lower value transit systems because, hypothetically, you could have a monorail or underground metrorail. Some mass transit is better than no mass transit, and higher values of mass transit now are better than superior mass transit in the future.
And also hyperloop is never the answer.
Yeah, something ~is better than nothing, but they could do so much better if they weren’t greedy…
The metro rail system in the city I moved away from recently had an expansion fail to open for 3 years because the contract selection process involved cronyist intervention by a former president and the result was the buildings not being built with safe concrete for building
Thats waay more expensive
It’s the only logic way to proceed, my hometown Madrid would be complete madness otherwise
Helsinki has had trams from the beginning, and many new residential developments are being built with them in mind. Two examples are Jätkäsaari and Kalasatama.
Both use the tram lines to connect residents to the adjacent, already existing, metro line.
Extending the metro line with just one or two stations, 90 degrees off its existing tracks, would be STUPID levels of expensive in comparison.
Wait wait wait. I’m confused. Madrid has a multimodal mass transit system with multiple tiers of value. It’s one of the cities that uses a tram system to connect its bus system to its metro rail. Am I misunderstanding what you’re trying to say?
I mean, Helsinki has those, too. The metro line is extremely good here.
But the same goes for these tram lines, they tend to cover connecting lines into residential areas, as they are slower, but a lot cheaper to build.
The metro meanwhile is an extreme capacity line that runs literally less than every five linutes, between the varius transit hubs of Helsinki.
But then i have to walk downstairs
I like trains because if I notice I forgot something important 20 minutes into a one hour commute it will set me back two hours and forty minutes.
Why would you go the whole way to your destination and not exit the next stop to return home?
I take the express train. I don’t want my one hour commute to be a two hour commute because they stop for five minutes every 8 minutes and have to get back up to speed. I already have to wake up ten minutes earlier to take the light rail, change trains to a local, take that three stops to a hub, and change to the express train. I should just buy a car.
Oh damn. That kind of sucks :/ do you often forget things at home?
I really enjoy commuting by train + bike, it is really cheap and kind of fun to be active before and after work. But my commute (at least the train part) is quite a bit shorter.
Depending on weather or track maintenance/construction I often think about getting a car as well. But then I remember how stressful commuting by car is and that thought is gone
One time I did all my grocery shopping for the month by train but I had to bring six friends to help carry everything home and I had to pay for all their tickets there and back. I bought them all dinner for wasting hours in their day to do what one person could trivially accomplish with one car. It actually ended up being cheaper to just pay the premium for instacart and tip the driver.
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Why the fuck would you do all your grocery shopping for a month all at once? Do you not live anywhere near civilization?
Well as apparently it takes them hours to get to their destination… probably not.
Why is this a valid point in the urbanism instance then?
That’s the dumbest argument for cars I’ve ever heard. And I’ve heard a lot of dumb ones.
If your commute is an hour by train, it’s gonna be like >2 hours by car in traffic. But sure, if you ignore all the benefits of trains and only look at the downsides they look bad.
In all seriousness I have commuted into a major city for various gigs throughout my life, including driving in at trades rush hour (5-6am), driving in at normie rush hour (7-10am), and driving in at off hours (around 11am-12pm) and a one hour drive leaving at 5am would be a two hour drive leaving at 7am and it would be a 30 minute drive at 11:30am. Taking the train in generally took about an hour ± 20 minutes depending on getting to the station, finding parking, and catching the correctly timed train. The delicious baked-in luxury of being alone and going wherever you want in a car instead of having to pile in another fart tube with 100 other people also rules.
The real answer is: it’s complicated and painting everyone with the same brush is kind of shitty.
@penix @GigaBowser so by your estimates, getting the train would be around an hour quicker for the normal commuter, and about the same for trades commuting. That’s quite something.
Extremely relevant to bring up in a post about urbanism and trams of course. So did this experience make you hate all public transport by association?
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If you got off at the next stop and turned around you’d add maybe an hour to your commute. A car would still be 30-40 minutes. Plus trains are way less stressful since there’s no dealing with idiot drivers.
That’s a very edge case scenario to bring to the table as a counterargument… Like my buddy who was sceptical about reverse cameras in cars because “and what if it breaks?”. Well, then we just use the rear view mirror like we always did. Nobody is arguing for abolishing them, just as nobody is arguing for completely abolishing cars.
Don’t forget things.
Living in Europe I completely don’t share that sentiment.
Cars should be used only when necessary and actually save significant proportion of time, otherwise cities become inhospitable hellholes and everyone loses (including cars now stuck in traffic).
But then again, I don’t forget things too often, and in other post I saw you said that you regularly need to make a 3 part jurney. This would be a good situation to get a car.
As an extremely forgetful person who commutes by public transit myself, this is why you make a mental checklist to run through before you leave home / the office. Phone, wallet, keys, lunchbag, anything else important you need for that day.
The trick is to run through it every single time you leave for your commute, no exceptions. It does take a few repetitions to get in the habit. But once you do, it’ll dramatically reduce the number of times you forget anything important.
Well if rich enough, you could just buy a car and sit in traffic… It would solve this anxiety somewhat
