German here, there are a bunch of “buts” worth mentioning, before everyone mistakes our country for a socialist utopia:
For starters, the notice period for employee and employer are identical, mutually agreed upon, and can be 1-6 months. If the OP was fired with 3 months notice, that simply means he would have to give equal notice when resigning. Usually it’s however expected to work all through the notice period and not just relax at home.
Secondly, a compensation is voluntarily, unless being fired due to socio-economic circumstances (as opposed to bad performance). In such a case, 1 month compensation per 1 year worked is often recommended by labor courts (maxing out at 6 months). Again, those are not mandatory unless it goes to an arbitration tribunal or court.
Thirdly, being allowed to take classes or other further education measures typically only exists for elderly layoffs with limited chances of finding qualified employment, or people with very limited skillset. Again the only exception is when being terminated due to socio-economic reasons, where the company agrees to pay development measures as part or in lieu of a settlement.
Unemployment benefits apply once the employee has paid social security contributions for minimum 12 months without interruption. In the first year they are due to receive 70% of their former salary after tax (there’s a cap though, I believe it was 2800 EUR/month).
If they still didn’t secure a new job, they are entitled to receive 484 EUR plus housing (based on actual cost; again capped and with a size restriction, I believe it was max. 20m² per person in the household). To qualify for this second stage of benefits however, the person must not have any assets exceeding 10k EUR, else they’d have to use those up first).
Medical insurance however is available all through without any caveats.
Yeah but in most of America they can just fire you for any reason without severance, and you lose healthcare.
Yeah but healthcare being tied to your job and practically unaffordable otherwise is the most ridiculous, capitalistic dystopian bullshit ever.
Yes I agree. I hate it here. This exact thing happened to me. I can’t pay rent next month if I don’t find a job. I have a cut in my nose that gives me splitting headaches and I had to cancel my appt with my ENT because I don’t have health insurance or an income.
Important details, but it doesn’t change anything about what the OP’s statement. As a US-expat living in Germany, I can confirm that the situation in germany is MUCH better.
I think it’s difficult for outsiders to understand how bad things are getting in the US. It’s already a distopia for many, and it’s steadily getting worse.
Still a socialist utopia in comparison. 😀
Example:
In such a case, 1 month compensation per 1 year worked is often recommended by labor courts (maxing out at 6 months). Again, those are not mandatory unless it goes to an arbitration tribunal or court.
I work for a pretty good company, of a decent size. I have things better than many folks in the US do with regard to my employer. I’ve been with them for almost 30 years. If they fire me tomorrow, I might get one extra paycheck from my employer, if I ask very nicely. There is no likely path through our legal system that will net me more than that, assuming they haven’t fired me in a way that violates my civil rights.
About your first point: That’s true, but depending on your position you might still be able to just chill at home because they won’t let anyone with access to their servers, mailing or backups work as if nothing happened.
About unemployment benefits: Gladly the last time I was unemployed was in 2022 so it might’ve changed by now, but isn’t it 60% of your former salary and 63% if you have kids?
About unemployment benefits: Gladly the last time I was unemployed was in 2022 so it might’ve changed by now, but isn’t it 60% of your former salary and 63% if you have kids?
My figures are from back in the early 2000’s, so you might be better informed there. I’ve luckily never been unemployed and learned those in HR Management class back in university.
French living in Germany here, always thought social rights are pretty crap here but for 'murica this is already a lot
That tends to be what happens, when a Nazi writes the strike laws.
It is also worth mentioning that while maybe technically true, you’ll have no issue getting those trainings in practice if you simply ask for them.
Unemployment benefits that are measured by your last monthly income don’t require 12 months without interruption, but 12 months combined over the prior 24 months.
About ALG II: Not sure where you get the 20 sqm per person from, it really depends. If you have a reasonable rent compared to local levels, they will cover it. I currently live in a pretty modest and cheap 40 sqm apartment and it was paid for when I was looking for jobs right after university. In addition to rent and free health insurance, you currently get 502 € per month to live on, which is pitiful given the current price levels. But yes, it’s sufficient to buy your groceries if you watch your spendings. Long term, it sucks since you never can afford anything unexpected, something you don’t need but would like to have or, god forbid, go on a little vacation trip.
The place I work has had an amazing 5~10 years. Constantly surpassing prior revenue “far and beyond what we expected”. And yet, annual raises are capped at 3%. No matter how well the company is doing, nobody gets a raise higher than 3%. 7% inflation? Fuck you, here’s 3%. Management wildly speculates about the coming year, and misses targets? Fuck you, here’s 1.5%. Sure, the company grew wildly last year, but not as wildly as they predicted, and they just can’t afford raises this year.
Coupled with all this growth meant a hiring spree. As the company grew, it seemed like there were always new faces walking around.
Then, the rug pull. Their #1 customer (about 50% of the business) announced they wouldn’t buy anything in 2024. Management found out in September. Before announcing anything, management forces everyone to sign a non-compete agreement. Nobody is allowed to go to work for a competitor, supplier, partner, customer, or start a new business in the same sector for 2 years after leaving the company. The agreement is filled with scary clauses such as forcing the ex-employee to pay all of the company’s legal fees in the event of a disagreement.
Once everyone signs (a few people left instead of signing), they announce the loss, and say that a lot of people will lose their job in 6 weeks. December 23rd. Christmas. This is painted as the CEO being generous in letting everyone know ahead of time, so they can make arrangements. Actually, it’s their legal obligation (look up the WARN act).
Remember that surge in hiring? Some of those people had only been with the company a few months. Some of them came from our competitors. Suddenly, they’re out of a job, plus they just signed an agreement that’s going to probably force them to move to get another one.
Yes, I know, non-competes are generally unenforceable, but that’s not the purpose. Because they’re not enforceable, they’re written to scare employees into not testing the company’s resolve if they ever leave or are fired. Someone suddenly out of work usually won’t take on that risk.
So yes, I’m a little radical now. I don’t hide it, I’m the “office socialist”. And I found out I’m not alone.
Always check with a Lawyer first. This is not legal advice. I am yelling from a rooftop into the air.
ahem
Non-compete agreements often have tagged on bullshit meant to sound scary! A lot of that bullshit cannot be enforced and can be ignored with impunity. In fact, there is often legal precedence to back this up. NEVER assume signing a contract means you are stuck by its terms as the contract must also be legal in scope.
Generally, a non compete cannot prevent one from pursuing work in a reasonable manner. Only the portions that directly protect the business, such as not quitting and leaving for a direct competitor, are enforceable.
I am not a lawyer. I’m pretty sure I came close to the answer, but I know there is a lot of wiggle room, gray area, nuance, and difference between US states.
Find a job somewhere else and watch them sink slowly from afar.
Go fast, and get a raise while you are at it.
I’m guessing a non-compete doesn’t count if they fire you or ‘let you go’. Cause if they didn’t want you working for someone else, they shouldn’t have gotten rid of you.
The best way to think about it is whether a provision within a non-compete makes sense to a reasonable person. In other words: Is it unreasonable? A likely not enforceable provision would be “cannot work for a competitor in the same State” due to how broad and how restrictive that provision is to the old employee. A court would look at that, at the industry, and pretty much every time say that the old employee cannot be reasonably expected to move themselves and their family out of State for a new job.
Gotta be purely logical though. Just because it’s bullshit doesn’t mean it’s unreasonable.
Thankfully in the US the FTC just banned non-compete agreements
What company? Sounds like dog shit, name em and shame em
It should be mention that to actually get fired is also a lengthy process where it’s on the employer to document e.g. unwillingness to perform assigned work and prove the employee has been given the opportunity to improve etc. etc… You can’t just tell someone they’re fired, get out, or you’d be in a world of hurt.
At least that’s how it is in Norway and I assume Germany is similar in such regards.
Yes. You need a very good reason to fire someone. When a large company is doing layoffs they negotiate with the unions about how to make it as painless as possible for the employees. That usually involves extra compensation, training etc. Note though, that this doesn’t apply to small companies below 30 employees. They can fire you pretty much any time. You’ll still get unemployment benefit and health insurance of course.
Smaller companies still cant fire you any time, they have to have a valid reason as well.
My first job was working in a property management company. At one point i was tasked to check all flats of a new property that got assigned to us, after the client bought it. I had to go through 30 flats in a day, to assess if there is legal possibilities for increasing the rent of people within the legal limits, based on the condition of the flat.
Going through the personal space of so many people in a single day, having to deflect about what the purpose of this is, being met with worry and hostility… There being the guy who took the day off, so he could assist his old mother, because she would have been overwhelmed if by herself. The guys who had a strongly water damaged flat in the ground floor, but me already knowing that our client will avoid any investment. The old couple where the guy kept yelling at me and his wife trying to calm him down…
This was just wrong. And now like a decade later i still remember some of the people and their flats, even though i couldn’t remember a single name.
Peoples homes shouldn’t be subjected to a profit maximizing market.
Worked in insurance for 9 months. Was treated like absolute shit, got paid way too little, and was told profits were what mattered, not the good of the patients. Came out of that job so broken and jaded.
This is the thirteenth year of my illustrious career in accounting. You really get to see the dark underbelly of humanity.
I used to be a social person.
Now I’m a misanthropic agoraphobe who generally avoids human interaction to the fullest extent possible.
Fifty percent of this is the people I work for and the general environment, the other fifty percent is how dishonest and abusive the clients can be.
Anytime you’re dealing with somebody’s personal finances, it gets ugly. I’m sure that insurance has parallels to my experience.
As someone who spent weeks trying and failing to hire an accountant, this explains a lot.
Starting at my first job and being promised a 90 day review and pay increase. Only to he told at 90 days that they’ve changed the policy going forwards.
Promises are worth jack shit is they are not in the contract. And this is true in Europe too
Not in workplace, but seeing older people in my country fetishizing suffering and injuries during work, and thus them throwing a temper tantrum every time workplace conditions improved, or the worst thing: not getting covered in oil during office work, and blaming said office workers for economic downturns for “being a deadweight on the economy”, and effectively calling them not workers. All while fetishizing CEOs of companies that do “real work” because they sometimes photo themselves in a designer-made “dirty” worker’s clothing (which costs like thousands of dollars) on the construction site.
One of the most ghoulistic such incident was under a news report of a female employee cutting her finger off at a quite infamous Hungarian supermarket franchise, and how her bosses didn’t let her to leave for the hospital. One such boomer said it was right for her bosses to stay, because it’s just a “minor injury”, and scars from it would be cool to show for crying little boys that injured themselves during play. Everyone but other boomers bodied him, but you have to remember our country is being shaped for these very boomers that won’t live for very long, but are insisting on passing their trauma onto the younger generations.
My peer was let go last year, and they received their full benefit package for a year, two weeks pay for each year of service (he had 28 years of service, so 14 months pay) and a “lump sum” of $15,000. He was in management, but everyone who was laid off got the same deal which included many individual contributors.
From what I have seen and heard there are many American companies that do this, the problem is that there is no law or other regulation that says they must. It should be this way for everyone, no matter who your employer is.
From what I have seen and heard there are many American companies that do this
There aren’t. Unless it’s a highly organized layoff involving unions, they typically just fire people now because layoffs have rules.
10 years in consulting. 2.5 to 3.0 billing multiplier for my labor. Even an “employee owned” corp. Still basically a pyramid scheme run by rich white men.
Go on…
An employee owned S-Corp is little more than a tax shelter. It doesn’t have much bearing on equity among employees. It mainly gives the company more un-taxed cash to buy out competitors. It’s like a pyramid scheme because employees have to buy their way in. That cash is used as more bonuses for the upper management. The only people getting wealthy are the ones already with millions of equity. Employee “owners” can’t do anything meaningful with that ownership.
Anyway after arguing for all kinds of raises, after nearly 10 years I didn’t have a whole lot to show. A 401k and Roth IRA. It’s not nothing but that too is like a pyramid scheme. My friends who worked in state government made just as much money and earned a pension worth 20% of their future salary.
Being informed that “from now on, we’ll use Microsoft development tools” because our branch in $other_country decided to.
Soon after that, I informed the boss that I’d wrap my projects up (using development tools of my choosing) during the subsequent year, and then leave, and support the projects in future as a subcontractor.
So I went and started my one-person-company. It was hard, but so far it has worked.
The last bit is somewhat similar to Sweden. There is no minimum wage in Sweden as it is negotiated between unions and employers. Employers could easily fire an employee as compromise of this deal, I suppose. However, a fired employee receives training from union to help with finding a new job.
